New member - common problems

Male pelvic pain, prostatitis, IC
gl0342
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Re: New member - common problems

Post by gl0342 »

Hey Jann21

I am also relatively new to the forum, although suffering for 6 months now. I have found endless high quality stuff in the forum, and the most relevant and promising direction I found here was regarding the book "A Headache in the Pelvis" from Wise & Anderson.

STRONGLY SUGGEST YOU BUY IT - first priority - you can find it at amazon or at their site. Their main focus is about non-bacterial prostatitis (or its more accurate name - Chronic Pelvic Pain Syndrome), which sometimes can follow an bacterial prostatitis, or start by itself as non-bacterial.

If you stop seeing signs of infection, then that would be a likely direction.

I have most of the symptoms you are describing but never had any sign of infection in any tests. I might have had one in the beginning because I had a strange case of 40c fever and pain for 1-2 days, about one month before all the constant symptoms showed up (penis pain, rectum pain, changing almost every day, worsened by sitting and stress etc...), but now it is too late to know, and in fact, it probably does not matter how it started.

Those signs of pain, never terrible but bad enough to make you miserable, and to limit your activity, coming and going away without clear reason, changing spot every few days, etc... are typical of CPPS.

As webslave mentioned, AVOID any exercise involving pelvic contraction. This will not help, and can make things worse (fortunately, this will be temporary).

Meanwhile, you should have a look at the site of Wise & Anderson - http://www.pelvicpainhelp.com. They list the possible symptoms of chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome (you can check for yourself if this relates to you), they explain the mechanisms of chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome (trigger points in muscles of the pelvis and attached to the pelvis, perpetuated by stress), and the method how to treat (the "Wise-Anderson Protocol"). This protocol can be learned at their clinic, but many many chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome sufferers have been able to do it without going to the clinic. From there you can follow and further understand trigger points. A good site about trigger points is: http://saveyourself.ca/tutorials/trigger-points.

It is very important to understand the "concept" of the problem, and the book is very helpful. Unless you "conceptualize" it, you will be running in endless directions, wasting a lot of money, be very anxious (which worsens your actual physical pain), and even start to be depressed.

It took me 6 months to reach that point of fully understand what is going on with me. Hope it will take less for you :)

Good luck.

George
Age: 51 | Onset Age: Early 2011 Symptoms: Before the Clinic: Pain while sitting. Pain in tip of penis. Reduced urine flow. Intermittent rectum and testicles pain. Poor sleep. After Clinic: Mild discomfort after long sitting, mild penis irritation. Attended the Wise-Anderson Clinic July 2011. Helped By: Physical Therapy (external & internal using the WA Wand - mainly external - abdominals and glutes), Paradoxical Relaxation, 30-min daily walk, Uroxatral (reduced tip-of-penis pain, but with side effects). Hot bath. Not helped by: Antibiotics, NSAIDS, Acupuncture, Homeopathy, supplements. Worsened By: Stress, Catastrophic Thinking, specific Yoga exercises, weight lifting.
Jann21
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Re: New member - common problems

Post by Jann21 »

George, many thanks for very informative post, I really appreciate that!

I have already accepted that the cause of my condition is not bacterial anymore, so I am reading this forum a lot to find a way how to battle this condition. Unfortunately I have already spent lot of money so I have to make some wise decisions. As I understand a headache in the pelvis is a must - so I will order it. I assume I would find some hints there about internal/external trigger points and self-treatment of trigger points, right? Or I should order the other ebook you mentioned as well? I just want to be sure that I am spending my money right.

Anyway, I am still puzzled by the fact that my levator ani is stretched out and not shortened. Doesn't that make my condition bit different to treat? I mean different triggers, stretches, exercises....

Thanks in advance

Jann
Age: 31 Onset Age: 31 Symptoms: Occasionally fullness feeling in rectum, usually after long sitting on hard surface or after intensive training. This is sometimes accompanied by lower back pain (in the end of tail bone), sometimes clear morning discharge. Diagnosis: Chronic Prostatitis. Helped By: Exercises, stress management. Worsened By: Sitting for prolonged period, stress, intensive exercise. Current Medicaments: Quercetin, Zinc Selenium, Prostamol Uno (Serenoa of repens)! Pumkin seed oil.
gl0342
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Re: New member - common problems

Post by gl0342 »

Jann hi

The best map of internal and external trigger points which are relevant to chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome is in Headache in the Pelvis.

In short the book will tell you that you need a combination of two things:
- Trigger point release - external and internal, first intensively, then on a less frequent basis.
- Daily relaxation.

There are several options to go:

1) The most effective and most expensive is to fly out to their 6-day clinic in California.

There they give you a full map of your active TPs (trigger points), teach you how to treat them, and for the internal ones which are hard to reach they will give you a special device. Also they teach you how to do relaxation (a special method called Paradoxical Relaxation), and dozens of instruction tapes. You can read more in the excellent posts viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5112 and especially viewtopic.php?f=34&t=6923

But this is expensive - 5,000-6,000$ including flights.

In fact this is what I have decided to do - after six months of trying everything else, spending a lot of money and energy. Then I read the book, many entries in the forum, tried some of the methods on myself, and being able to see it can work. For example I can get rid of the pain in the penis 1-2 days after it restarts (usually upon stress), but I cannot get rid of the sitting pain, bad sleep etc...

2) In the Forum you will find endless stories of people who succeeded using the method (or methods close to what you see in the book) WITHOUT going to the Clinic.

Look at the Discussion: viewforum.php?f=7 "Muscle Spasm & Anxiety"

This is the main place (look also at "Success Stories").

- There are alternatives for relaxation. Please note that this is a CRITICAL part of getting better.

- For physical therapy (TP release + daily stretches), the book is the place to start, but you might need at least a few sessions with a professional physiotherapist to get an idea what to do. This might be difficult to find in your country - she/he should know about Trigger Point (based on the work of Travell & Simons - you can google about their work), be ready to do internal pelvis work, and be open to look at the book and work by it. This can be difficult but worth the effort.
- Others have been able to work externally and even internal without physiotherapist help. Not easy but doable. Again you can find ideas in the forum.

Most important is motivation.

I can help and send you some material (e-books) if you post an email address (best gmail one for receiving large files).

Regarding levator ani - I am not a doctor, but I would assume that contractions are not good for TPs in pelvis (personal experience). Wise&Anderson strongly recommend not to do those. I think that after you have the book, gained more knowledge about CPPS/TPs etc..., you should openly re-discuss that. Or check with another physioT, best who understand TPs or is willing to learn.

Best
George
Age: 51 | Onset Age: Early 2011 Symptoms: Before the Clinic: Pain while sitting. Pain in tip of penis. Reduced urine flow. Intermittent rectum and testicles pain. Poor sleep. After Clinic: Mild discomfort after long sitting, mild penis irritation. Attended the Wise-Anderson Clinic July 2011. Helped By: Physical Therapy (external & internal using the WA Wand - mainly external - abdominals and glutes), Paradoxical Relaxation, 30-min daily walk, Uroxatral (reduced tip-of-penis pain, but with side effects). Hot bath. Not helped by: Antibiotics, NSAIDS, Acupuncture, Homeopathy, supplements. Worsened By: Stress, Catastrophic Thinking, specific Yoga exercises, weight lifting.
Jann21
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Re: New member - common problems

Post by Jann21 »

George, many thanks again! I ordered the HITP from amazon now, should get it in 2 weeks. I created gmail account - it is [email protected]. I have an appointment with another physioT on monday, lets see what she thinks of this.

I would say the most troublesome symptom is the fullness feeling in rectum. I have been sitting now for 1,5 hours at the office, I've stood up couple of times for few minutes and I can feel the whole bottom is slowly getting bit numb. Usually after that I start having slight burning feeling in rectum. And finally I get a feeling that rectum is full of something. It kind a feels that I would need to pass gas but there is nothing in there. And once it has settled in, I cannot get over that feeling. At least not fully. If I lay down on my back, it usually gets better but that is not an option at the office, right :) Anyway, I can go to bed with pain but I will always wake up pain free.

all the best!
Age: 31 Onset Age: 31 Symptoms: Occasionally fullness feeling in rectum, usually after long sitting on hard surface or after intensive training. This is sometimes accompanied by lower back pain (in the end of tail bone), sometimes clear morning discharge. Diagnosis: Chronic Prostatitis. Helped By: Exercises, stress management. Worsened By: Sitting for prolonged period, stress, intensive exercise. Current Medicaments: Quercetin, Zinc Selenium, Prostamol Uno (Serenoa of repens)! Pumkin seed oil.
gl0342
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Re: New member - common problems

Post by gl0342 »

Sent you 2 ebooks. Let me know if you have received.

Maybe you should wait until you have the AHIP book, so you can show the PT the diagrams (what points affect specific areas). Otherwise she will be wanting to do what she knows, which might likely not include trigger point releases.

George
Age: 51 | Onset Age: Early 2011 Symptoms: Before the Clinic: Pain while sitting. Pain in tip of penis. Reduced urine flow. Intermittent rectum and testicles pain. Poor sleep. After Clinic: Mild discomfort after long sitting, mild penis irritation. Attended the Wise-Anderson Clinic July 2011. Helped By: Physical Therapy (external & internal using the WA Wand - mainly external - abdominals and glutes), Paradoxical Relaxation, 30-min daily walk, Uroxatral (reduced tip-of-penis pain, but with side effects). Hot bath. Not helped by: Antibiotics, NSAIDS, Acupuncture, Homeopathy, supplements. Worsened By: Stress, Catastrophic Thinking, specific Yoga exercises, weight lifting.
Jann21
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Re: New member - common problems

Post by Jann21 »

George, got both of them! Many thanks and have a nice journey!
Age: 31 Onset Age: 31 Symptoms: Occasionally fullness feeling in rectum, usually after long sitting on hard surface or after intensive training. This is sometimes accompanied by lower back pain (in the end of tail bone), sometimes clear morning discharge. Diagnosis: Chronic Prostatitis. Helped By: Exercises, stress management. Worsened By: Sitting for prolonged period, stress, intensive exercise. Current Medicaments: Quercetin, Zinc Selenium, Prostamol Uno (Serenoa of repens)! Pumkin seed oil.
Jann21
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Re: New member - common problems

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hey all!I purchased a wand now and tried to do some internal work. I think I was poking around there around half an hour to find some trigger points. I am not sure if I went deep enough but I could not find any spots that hurt. Even pushing on prostate did not hurt. Just a slight urination feeling. But that was so mild. I tried to move left and right and a bit up from prostate but nothing. The only thing is that my butt is bit sore now from this penetration. Any advise here?

I thought I would share some progress as well but it is no news for you probably. My first morning pee used to burn but now I drink class of water 20-30 mins before going to pee and I haven't had this burning now for few weeks.
Age: 31 Onset Age: 31 Symptoms: Occasionally fullness feeling in rectum, usually after long sitting on hard surface or after intensive training. This is sometimes accompanied by lower back pain (in the end of tail bone), sometimes clear morning discharge. Diagnosis: Chronic Prostatitis. Helped By: Exercises, stress management. Worsened By: Sitting for prolonged period, stress, intensive exercise. Current Medicaments: Quercetin, Zinc Selenium, Prostamol Uno (Serenoa of repens)! Pumkin seed oil.
Jann21
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Re: New member - common problems

Post by Jann21 »

Guys, sorry for almost spam like behaviour but need some good advise. I had another internal trip today and again no hurting spots. Anyway, I see that most of the pain comes from sphincter muscle. I tried to massage it and it was really sore. Actually I am really tight around there. I will keep on working on it but what muscle relaxant would you advise to help me a bit loosen up those muscles? I was on Xatral for 1 month but it did not seem to help. I know 1 month is not enough, should I continue taking those or it is wise to try another brand?

Ps. Even I couldn't find any trigger points, the feeling after internal massage is great! I am feeling relaxed and don't have fullness feeling in rectum. Even though I know it will return after a while, internal massage definitely helps. And the stream after that is just so powerful!
Age: 31 Onset Age: 31 Symptoms: Occasionally fullness feeling in rectum, usually after long sitting on hard surface or after intensive training. This is sometimes accompanied by lower back pain (in the end of tail bone), sometimes clear morning discharge. Diagnosis: Chronic Prostatitis. Helped By: Exercises, stress management. Worsened By: Sitting for prolonged period, stress, intensive exercise. Current Medicaments: Quercetin, Zinc Selenium, Prostamol Uno (Serenoa of repens)! Pumkin seed oil.
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webslave
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Re: New member - common problems

Post by webslave »

Well, you need to consciously relax muscles in that area. Get the book on Paradoxical Relaxation by Wise (see link in my signature to Amazon store). Drugs to help would include Flexeril (muscle relaxant) and a benzodiazepine like Valium or Xanax (tranquillizer). Xatral is an alpha-blocker and will have no effect on the skeletal muscles that are under your voluntary control.
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Jann21
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Re: New member - common problems

Post by Jann21 »

Thanks Webslave for the advise. I will consider both options.

Btw has anyone seen a device called "Intracorporeal Electro Stimulator"? (from ids-healthcare.com ) Or it has the same effect as Kegel?
Age: 31 Onset Age: 31 Symptoms: Occasionally fullness feeling in rectum, usually after long sitting on hard surface or after intensive training. This is sometimes accompanied by lower back pain (in the end of tail bone), sometimes clear morning discharge. Diagnosis: Chronic Prostatitis. Helped By: Exercises, stress management. Worsened By: Sitting for prolonged period, stress, intensive exercise. Current Medicaments: Quercetin, Zinc Selenium, Prostamol Uno (Serenoa of repens)! Pumkin seed oil.
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Re: New member - common problems

Post by webslave »

From that site:
Intracorporeal Electro Stimulator Generates Intestinal Embankment and Peristalsis Wave for Treatment of Worm Illnesses, Prostatitis, Postoperative Catharsis, Dynamic Ileuses, Dyskinesia, Sideroprive Anemia, Chronic Alcoholism and More
This screams Quackery to me.
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Jann21
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Re: New member - common problems

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Hey all! Haven't posted for a while. I have been slowly improving so far. That is through some light exercise and stretching. Sitting is much better, no issues with urination, some urgency though time to time. Even the morning discharge which I had since beginning has reduced. Not getting it every morning but lets say 2-3 times per week. I was really positive until this Monday. I had a follow up with my uro who performed Nickel test again to see if the inflammation is there. And bang, my prostate was swollen again and WBC count was again pretty high. It really surprised me as I felt better than before. I have been taking Cernilton and Quercetin for almost 3 months and I hoped it will clear inflammation. Boy was I wrong. So now uro offered to have a session of prostate massage as it seems that my prostate is not in condition to fight it off by itself. Well, I had first session, prostate was still swollen, not too painful but still kind of hurt. But after an hour of session, fullness in rectum pain returned. Few hours later things got under control again. It got me thinking that isn't it still the swollen prostate giving me the sitting pain? And not the pelvic muscles around?

I always thought that the discharge is the sign of inflammation so if discharge starts to disappear why WBC count is high again?

Any other suggestion how to fight with inflammation?
Age: 31 Onset Age: 31 Symptoms: Occasionally fullness feeling in rectum, usually after long sitting on hard surface or after intensive training. This is sometimes accompanied by lower back pain (in the end of tail bone), sometimes clear morning discharge. Diagnosis: Chronic Prostatitis. Helped By: Exercises, stress management. Worsened By: Sitting for prolonged period, stress, intensive exercise. Current Medicaments: Quercetin, Zinc Selenium, Prostamol Uno (Serenoa of repens)! Pumkin seed oil.
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Re: New member - common problems

Post by Jann21 »

Hello all!

I have not posted for a while but I've been still following the forum (when things are bad). My situation has definitely improved but I am not totally pain free though. I have been doing stretches and I have been exercising a lot. Skiing is really good and it seems to produce no pain. Tennis otherwise (I play 2 a week) makes my butt sore though. But as I really like the game I want to continue with that. So basically after tennis, I use heating pad to relax my pelvis.

Sitting is still uncomfortable sometimes. Again, sometimes when I get carried away by work, I do not feel any pain. But then I focus on it and it of course comes back. As I have not done much of internal work (I tried it in August but could not really find any sore spots I stopped), I once again tried to poke around with my finger and I guess I found something different. There are tight strings/bands on both, left and right side of the prostate. Should it be all soft tissue and those bands are trigger points? those seem to be identical so I kind of feel that those are supposed to be there. Any advise?
Age: 31 Onset Age: 31 Symptoms: Occasionally fullness feeling in rectum, usually after long sitting on hard surface or after intensive training. This is sometimes accompanied by lower back pain (in the end of tail bone), sometimes clear morning discharge. Diagnosis: Chronic Prostatitis. Helped By: Exercises, stress management. Worsened By: Sitting for prolonged period, stress, intensive exercise. Current Medicaments: Quercetin, Zinc Selenium, Prostamol Uno (Serenoa of repens)! Pumkin seed oil.
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Re: New member - common problems

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Hey, does anyone have good advise regarding my previous post? In addition, I started to take Elavil. Have done it for 6 days now. I have taken 5mg before bed time. I have not really experienced any reduction in pain but it seems that I need to visit toilet much less now. Insted of 5-6 times, I need to go only 3-4 times a day. BUT it seems that my urine flow is now bit weaker and it takes longer time to empty my bladder. I read that Elavil should not be taken if you have enlarged prostate but due to prostatitis my prostate is bit enlarged or swollen. Could it now be a side effect of Elavil even if I am taking so low dose as 5mg per day. Your feedback would be appricated.
Age: 31 Onset Age: 31 Symptoms: Occasionally fullness feeling in rectum, usually after long sitting on hard surface or after intensive training. This is sometimes accompanied by lower back pain (in the end of tail bone), sometimes clear morning discharge. Diagnosis: Chronic Prostatitis. Helped By: Exercises, stress management. Worsened By: Sitting for prolonged period, stress, intensive exercise. Current Medicaments: Quercetin, Zinc Selenium, Prostamol Uno (Serenoa of repens)! Pumkin seed oil.
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Re: New member - common problems

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There are tight strings/bands on both, left and right side of the prostate. Should it be all soft tissue and those bands are trigger points? those seem to be identical so I kind of feel that those are supposed to be there.
Sounds normal. Abnormal tissue is usually painful when manipulated. Continue with the Elavil for a month before assessing its usefulness.
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