"Nerve damage"

Male pelvic pain, prostatitis, IC
GP2
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"Nerve damage"

Post by GP2 »

I have read here that most of us will never get our nerves 100% better again down there in our pelvis. But it is also clear that nerves do heal over time but maybe not 100%

I think it is safe to say that even if we do recover really well our pelvic nerves may always be a little vulnerable. Not that it really matters.

Is that people's general understanding?
Age: 29 | Onset Age: 26 | Symptoms: initially severe burning throughout pelvis - much better; muscles spasms all over region, back pain, chronic IBS (much better) | Helped By: Psychotherapy, SP stretches, swimming, accepting the condition (understanding there is treatment); stress/anxiety management; possibly basic quercetin; valerian root, vit B & calc & magn supplements; gluten avoidance & especially dealing with chronic constipation. | Worsened By: stress / anxiety, too much sex; repressed emotions; personality goodist traits. 80% better
GP2
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Post by GP2 »

And also some quarters argue that long term pain (many years) gets "wired" into the brain and nervous system. Almost like a "pain link" is established that keeps perpetuating itself.

Is the SP one way of breaking this loop or to a certain extent due to muscle, cell, nerve meory is our pain never really "curable"??

I'm not saying this to be negative. All this doesnt really matter if we can resolve our pain through muscle treatment etc. I personally believe that you can "un wire" the brain again. I think David wise says that your pelvis has to get used to being pain free again.

I know some of you think there may be a link with the nervous system through the spine? I am sure there is research in this department.
Age: 29 | Onset Age: 26 | Symptoms: initially severe burning throughout pelvis - much better; muscles spasms all over region, back pain, chronic IBS (much better) | Helped By: Psychotherapy, SP stretches, swimming, accepting the condition (understanding there is treatment); stress/anxiety management; possibly basic quercetin; valerian root, vit B & calc & magn supplements; gluten avoidance & especially dealing with chronic constipation. | Worsened By: stress / anxiety, too much sex; repressed emotions; personality goodist traits. 80% better
Rufus
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Post by Rufus »

I think the sympathetic nerve blocks that two people I know who suffer from chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome have had the cycle of pain broken and have given the mind/pelvis a chance to unwire itself from the perpetual pain cycle.

As much as I hate to be poked by a needle in such a sensitive and delicate area, I'm willing to explore this option.

These guys have just started this type of block so it's way to early to tell how long it will last but I'll let you know what develops as time goes by.

PM me if you want their contact info as they are more than welcome to share their stories.
Age:37 | Onset Age: 35 | Symptoms: pain in testicles that comes and goes that also switches sides-trying to find a pattern as to "why" this happens/Rectal Burn at the 6 O'clock position at my anus which tends to flare around the periphery of my anus typically after defication but no perineum pain-no "golf ball" pain. Pain in testicles worsens as I sit but not always...Pain is not always present but depresses me. Pain used to be at a very high level but has subsided in time to a low level but has not gone away. Pain used to flare after sex but not as much as before although it still like playing russian roulette./
/Lack of SleepHelped By: I haven't found anything that has helped to my knowledge. Tried many many sessions of PT, accupuncture and chiropractic care but still have not found steady relief that takes me back to a pre CPPS state.
Rufus
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Post by Rufus »

I also want to add that in recent sessions with PT, I have noticed some amazing improvements. I'm not 100% but I'm pretty close.

For those of you that have read some of my post, the majority of them have been pretty depressive but given my state of perpetual pain in the most sensitive part of a mans anatomy, I'm hoping that all of you will understand.

Is this a success story?
Well I measure success but reverting to a state of pre chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome but I will attest to PT helping me tremendously.


There is most certainly a mind/body link in the healing process and a person with this condition must ride out the worst of times and give the body a chance to heal which comes with relaxation therapy.

The difference between paradoxial relaxation and nerve blocks (in my opinion) is that the nerve blocks may "cut to the chase" and reset the nerves which may be hard wired to a perpetual pain state.

I'm no doc, this is just my personal view on things.

Do the blocks work for everyone?

I don't know.

Do doctors perform the right blocks in the right area?

Not all the time.

Some lack the experience, some don't care and most doctors seem to think we're all a couple of cans short of a six pack so whatever it is that makes you better, keep it up and keep sharing.

The two guys I know (it was first one now two) have found relief from a sympathtic nerve block of the ganglion nerve.
The doctor who preformed the block for one of my buddies can be found at this site: http://www.painmngt.com/clinics.html

Hope this is helpful.

:)
Age:37 | Onset Age: 35 | Symptoms: pain in testicles that comes and goes that also switches sides-trying to find a pattern as to "why" this happens/Rectal Burn at the 6 O'clock position at my anus which tends to flare around the periphery of my anus typically after defication but no perineum pain-no "golf ball" pain. Pain in testicles worsens as I sit but not always...Pain is not always present but depresses me. Pain used to be at a very high level but has subsided in time to a low level but has not gone away. Pain used to flare after sex but not as much as before although it still like playing russian roulette./
/Lack of SleepHelped By: I haven't found anything that has helped to my knowledge. Tried many many sessions of PT, accupuncture and chiropractic care but still have not found steady relief that takes me back to a pre CPPS state.
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Post by kevin »

Autonomic and peripheral nerves, such as those that connect to the bladder, genitals, and pelvic floor muscles, recover and regenerate from injury remarkably well. Also, rewiring of connections in the brain happens all the time. So, I don't think irreversible nerve damage should be a big concern on anyone's mind.

As for the question about spinal nerves, a lot of the recent research on neuromodulation shows how treatment of pelvic floor spasticity can fix mis-wiring in the spinal cord. In my mind, this probably had a role in how the LUTS of many people (such as Scoobysnacks and carld) were reduced after starting physical therapy.
Started: Spring 2003; high urinary frequency and pain associated with bladder filling; urinary hesitancy; pubic/prostate/perineal discomfort; Helped by: trigger point therapy, Afrin nasal spray, Cymbalta, hydrocodone (small doses), distraction. Makes worse: sex.

Not medical advice. Consult your doctor.
GP2
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Post by GP2 »

Thanks Kevin

Rufus - pleased for you buddy :smile: Be patient though - there may be some setbacks!
Age: 29 | Onset Age: 26 | Symptoms: initially severe burning throughout pelvis - much better; muscles spasms all over region, back pain, chronic IBS (much better) | Helped By: Psychotherapy, SP stretches, swimming, accepting the condition (understanding there is treatment); stress/anxiety management; possibly basic quercetin; valerian root, vit B & calc & magn supplements; gluten avoidance & especially dealing with chronic constipation. | Worsened By: stress / anxiety, too much sex; repressed emotions; personality goodist traits. 80% better
Rufus
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Post by Rufus »

Yeah, I just learned that they started to feel pain again...

Their docs say that over time the nerves could be deadened but I don't know what to think.

Just wanted to report it's not the silver bullet I thought it would be.
Age:37 | Onset Age: 35 | Symptoms: pain in testicles that comes and goes that also switches sides-trying to find a pattern as to "why" this happens/Rectal Burn at the 6 O'clock position at my anus which tends to flare around the periphery of my anus typically after defication but no perineum pain-no "golf ball" pain. Pain in testicles worsens as I sit but not always...Pain is not always present but depresses me. Pain used to be at a very high level but has subsided in time to a low level but has not gone away. Pain used to flare after sex but not as much as before although it still like playing russian roulette./
/Lack of SleepHelped By: I haven't found anything that has helped to my knowledge. Tried many many sessions of PT, accupuncture and chiropractic care but still have not found steady relief that takes me back to a pre CPPS state.
Clay
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Post by Clay »

My PT says that TENS devices can also be very helpful in breaking the pain cycle with nerves, and that's a lot easier to consider than a needle!
I am not a doctor too!
Age 64, sudden onset 5/06 during bout of flu, colitis, lung and liver problems. Pain in penis, then moved to rectum. No urinary symptoms. Use Lyrica, Elavil, paxil, Xanax, morphine, vicodin, relaxation, pads for sitting, 100+ PT sessions. Sensitive to gluten, milk protein, soy. I have CFS, anxiety, GERD, Barrett's, colitis, kidney stones, one of which referred pain to penis.
damien6
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Post by damien6 »

Hello,

I saw a program on TV about this issue. It focused mainly on long term back pain. It seems the research is still pretty early on but it is happening.

Damien

PS On the show they discussed a guy who had chronic pain in a phantom limb, now THAT would be a bitch!
Age:29 | Onset Age:24 Correct diagnosis Age: 27.5 | Symptoms: pain, burning in genital region | Helped By: Initial cystoscopy procedure which removed stricture and bladder carcinoma 30% better, less stress, getting better gradually | Worsened By: Feeling out of comfort zone/control, stress.
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Post by alprost »

A critical point here is that, in the vast majority of cases, I don't think there is any nerve damage in the first place.

What we have are nerves and nerve pathways which are hypersensitive due to the presence of trigger points and an over-aroused brain/sympathetic nervous system. To me the basics are - Rule out Urology, identify and treat trigger points and calm the mind and nervous system.
This is not Medical advice - Consult your Doctor!

Age:39. Age at onset:31. Symptoms prior to treatment: Golf ball in rectum, severe urinary frequency (2-3x/hr; 5-10x/night); weak stream; painful ejaculation; coccygeal pain; tip of penis pain; general pelvic pain on left; testicular pain; supra-pubic pain. Current | Symptoms: Urinary frequency 1x every 2-3 hrs and 1-2 x a night; mild pelvic pain on left hand side (all symptoms still improving!)
Helped by: Trigger point release; avoiding exercise; pelvic floor relaxation; Neurontin decreased bladder sensitivity somewhat. Worsened by: Exercise; frequent ejaculation; ibuprofen irritates bladder. Made no difference: Diet; biofeedback; quercetin; Steroid anti-inflammatories; Elavil.

****UPDATE*** I am now able to sit again at work all day, and can perform moderate aerobic exersise again for the first time in 8 years!!!

Please read:
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=808&p=3954
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=239&p=1158
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=248&p=1214
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Post by webslave »

In my experience nerves, once they have become as disturbed as in CP/CPPS, cannot ever be entirely normal again. I sit here now with no symptoms whatsoever, but I know that I could get sick again quite quickly, probably, if I started doing all the things that caused the condition in the first place. And this time I believe it wouldn't take as long to re-create the symptoms.

What evidence do I have? Only this: I also have pain syndromes in my hands and arms from 15+ years of intense mousing and computer work. I eventually got rid of the pain by changing my work habits, using my hands less, getting rid of the mouse, etc. BUT if I start using the mouse and fall into old habits, the pain rapidly returns. So while I am "healed" and symptom-free, I can become symptomatic very quickly again. My deduction is that neurological damage cannot entirely heal, and the pathways for pain and dysfunction are there forever, easily provoked.

Nerves can be nasty. They "scar" a little when abused, just like the skin scars when cut. That is my experience.

Interesting page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuropathy
Last edited by webslave on Thu May 03, 2007 2:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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carld
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Post by carld »

kevin wrote:Autonomic and peripheral nerves, such as those that connect to the bladder, genitals, and pelvic floor muscles, recover and regenerate from injury remarkably well. Also, rewiring of connections in the brain happens all the time. So, I don't think irreversible nerve damage should be a big concern on anyone's mind.

As for the question about spinal nerves, a lot of the recent research on neuromodulation shows how treatment of pelvic floor spasticity can fix mis-wiring in the spinal cord. In my mind, this probably had a role in how the LUTS of many people (such as Scoobysnacks and carld) were reduced after starting physical therapy.
That's why I'm a supporter of Elavil and supplements like any accredited quercetin product because they can quiet the nerves over time and allow them to at some level, heal...

I also agree with webslave in that once you sprian your ankle, you can fully recover, but it becomes easyer to sprain it again after you recover. Same thing with nerves that have been irritated by tension and anxiety and tight muscles.
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I encourage anxiety prone UCPPS people to consider L-Theanine
Age, 44 onset age 37 Feb 2006 Freq. need to urinate. Sensation of having to urinate soon after going. Perineum discomfort/burning/tightness, pubic area discomfort @ times,poor urine stream, post urine dripping/spray. All symptoms have improved with my protocol. At the worst I give it a 1 to 2 on irritation and discomfort and frequency. Helps: Elavil 5mg for anxiety and mast cell protection, (will only take it as needed) self internal PT as needed, stretching, walking, stairmaster cardio workout and light weights, reducing stress, moment to moment relaxation, deep breathing relaxation and using a Theracane. Makes worse: sitting for long periods, stress, over focusing on it. Currently 95%-98% recovered. Stay positive, relaxed and control your anxiety.