My story

[ivanbulgaria]

Hello everyone, first sorry for my bad English. I'm from Bulgaria.

I was diagnosed with chronic bacterial prostatitis 8 years ago, in my case bacteria that I found in my ejaculate is always klebsiela pneumonie.

I have trichomonas vaginalis too, but I managed to eliminate it. I do many courses with antibiotics, without good success. I found 1 doctor and we start to do prostate massage. When I did the first massage from my prostate came a lot of pus. I have stopped the massages for now because I need to travel every weekend almost 200 miles. Also I have really high level of calcification in my prostate I have picture but the quality is bad.

Already buy . Any accredited quercetin product 4 bottles but I read somewhere that it is not effective in bacterial prostatitis. Is that true?

Also what u suggest me ? I have pain almost all the time since 8 years ago, and the pain really destroyed my mind. My stomach is really bad too, because of many courses with antibiotics.. regards

[webslave]

I would continue with the any accredited quercetin product because the chances that you have true chronic bacterial prostatitis are very low, given your case history. The "pus" expressed from your prostate are pus cells, which show inflammation, not necessarily infection. This is a common finding in men with CPPS. Calcifications are also common, in all men, and not especially significant one way or another. Bulgaria is not a country where you have many resources for treating CPPS, so you need to learn as much as you can here, and attempt to treat yourself.

[ivanbulgaria]

I would continue with the any accredited quercetin product because the chances that you have true chronic bacterial prostatitis are very low, given your case history. The "pus" expressed from your prostate are pus cells, which show inflammation, not necessarily infection. This is a common finding in men with CPPS. Calcifications are also common, in all men, and not especially significant one way or another. Bulgaria is not a country where you have many resources for treating CPPS, so you need to learn as much as you can here, and attempt to treat yourself.

Thank you for your answer, well I'm sure that I have chronic bacterial prostatitis, but also I think even I had bacterial prostatitis any accredited quercetin product can help me.

Because many doctor here prescribe quercetin for my symptoms Klebsiela pneumonie is in very large quantity so that's why I'm sure I need to treat. Plus one of my urologist told that I have high level of biofilms in my prostate, and that was a sign of active infection.

Also I receive one message from pr. Rodney Anderson about my case:

Hello Ivan, In my experience, chronic persistent or recurrent bacterial prostatitis is the result of a hidden nidus or focus of bacteria either in tissue or calcifications. Antibiotics do not penetrate efficiently. I have had some success with a 6-week course of appropriate antibiotic such as ciprofloxacin or other choice based on a careful microbiologic analysis of the expressed prostatic fluid and antibiotic sensitivity of the organisms. During that antibiotic period I usually perform thorough prostatic massage to express any infected fluid every 10-14 days. It is possible to have benign calcification in the prostate without infection; usually it just means a little reflux of mineral-containing urine into the ducts. Make sure you always have a relaxed urine flow and don't push. If that conservative treatment is not successful, based upon a repeat microbiologic culture of massaged prostate fluid two weeks after completing the therapy, more aggressive approach may be necessary, such as direct prostate injections of antibiotics through transrectal ultrasound. It is helpful not to have any ejaculation for 3-4 days prior to cultures or massage therapy. Good luck and let me know the outcome.

[webslave]

Klebsiela pneumonie is in very large quantity

You have the lab results for us? I'm not saying it's impossible that you have CBP, but based on the fact that urologists are giving you quercetin, it's unlikely that they actually believe you have CBP themselves.

[ivanbulgaria]

To be honest with you, Bulgarian doctors are the most biggest idiots in the world.... I have lab results I do in 2 different microbiological centers, and its always klebsiela.. Also already contacted with dr. Georgiadis from Greece, and dr. Guercini from Italy. Here is message from Georgiadis

Hello Ivan,
Thank you for your message. So:

1) Antibiotics alone are not enough to kill microbes - you have only cleared the surface ones. Think about it like this: when a microbe enters the prostate it usually gets trapped in the prostatic glandular ducts. It starts causing inflammation (but by the time you notice symptoms it's already 1-2 years late), hardening the area, blocking the correct blood circulation. Oral antibiotics travel through blood, and as such a) they never reach areas where circulation has been blocked b) if they do, they do in such a small quantity that they only weaken the microbe temporarily. This is why patients relapse after a month of antibiotics - the microbes in the ducts develop resistance and eventually multiply - making the same antibiotic futile. In other words, you still have the Trichomonas as well as the Klebsiella etc. I typically find 2-4 microbes per patient, even if they are not being shown at the results at the beginning. The reason you do not see them at the results could be a) because you are not releasing them (as they are trapped in the prostatic ducts), but I guarantee they are still there or b) you are releasing them in too small quantities, and the lab that is testing for them is cutting corners.

2) The reason amikacin and antibiotics on their own don't work is because they do nothing about the softness, size, inflammations etc. of the prostate. All you are doing is releasing a higher quantity of antibiotics. In my protocol I do twice-per-day rigorous and thorough prostatic pressures for a period of 6-8 weeks during which the patient takes strong oral antibiotics (based on their microbiological exams). In my 20+ years of curing chronic prostatitis, this is the only method I have found that leads to a radical cure. The constant and continuous pressures work towards restoring the softness, circulation and size, and with increased circulation the antibiotics have tremendously better effectiveness, the nerves get unblocked (so pain goes away, erections return) etc. In the end, I may or not may not do one or more intraprostatic injections in case the microbes are being very resistant but only after at least some weeks of prostatic pressures - otherwise injections are ineffective.

I can't found message from Guercini, I ask him for calcifications in prostate, because urologists in Bulgaria told me this. Calcifications is a old infection where the body has dealt with it. Guercini say that is normal to have calcification in prostate, many people have it. but in chronic prostatitis is not problem calcification. the problem is infected calcification..

What do you think about this webslave? Thank you advanced here is results from microbiology

[webslave]

Also already contacted with dr. Georgiadis from Greece

Georgiadis is discussed here:
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=8514

and dr. Guercini from Italy.

Guercini here:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2431
Dr Guercini said in 2006 that he believes the cortisone in his injections is the key component in his treatment.

Antibiotics alone are not enough to kill microbes - you have only cleared the surface ones. Think about it like this: when a microbe enters the prostate it usually gets trapped in the prostatic glandular ducts. It starts causing inflammation (but by the time you notice symptoms it's already 1-2 years late), hardening the area, blocking the correct blood circulation. Oral antibiotics travel through blood, and as such a) they never reach areas where circulation has been blocked b) if they do, they do in such a small quantity that they only weaken the microbe temporarily. This is why patients relapse after a month of antibiotics - the microbes in the ducts develop resistance and eventually multiply - making the same antibiotic futile. In other words, you still have the Trichomonas as well as the Klebsiella etc.

Complete nonsense. A number of antibiotics exceed the minimum inhibitory concentrations inside the prostate of most Enterobacteriaceae species like kleb.

I typically find 2-4 microbes per patient, even if they are not being shown at the results at the beginning.

Quack alert! No other uro gets these findings, except well known quacks like the Felicianos, Polacheck etc

they are trapped in the prostatic ducts

This is the garbage theory that was pushed by the Prostatitis Foundation for years.
viewtopic.php?f=37&p=56342#p56342

In my protocol I do twice-per-day rigorous and thorough prostatic pressures for a period of 6-8 weeks during which the patient takes strong oral antibiotics (based on their microbiological exams). In my 20+ years of curing chronic prostatitis, this is the only method I have found that leads to a radical cure. The constant and continuous pressures work ...

In fact, the constant massaging of the prostatic area is a de facto treatment of trigger points in the levator ani. That's why it seems to work.

Calcifications is a old infection where the body has dealt with it.

Calcifications are found in normal men who have not had infections that we know of. They are not a sign of past infection.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29076299

The results you present are difficult to understand because not in English. But it looks like a kleb colony count of 10^3 cfu/ml. That's not an infection.

The most commonly used criterion for defining significant bacteriuria is the presence of ⩾10^5 cfu per milliliter of urine.... Most patients with UTIs, however, do not fall into either category, and 30%–50% of patients with acute urethral syndrome will have colony counts of <10^5 cfu/ml. For this reason, many laboratories have opted to use lower colony counts as a criterion for interpreting and reporting results. One common criterion is a colony count of 10^4 cfu/ml, which would be expected to increase the sensitivity of the test without making the test impractical for clinicians and laboratories to use.

https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/38/8/1150/441696

Also, please note we do not welcome obsessing about immortal bacteria causing pain:
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=1642

[ivanbulgaria]

Thanks for the comprehensive answer, in this case I don't know now what I gotta to do. I just hope . Any accredited quercetin product to relieve my symptoms because pain killing me for 7 years..

By the way I was feel really better after massage..