Wise Anderson wand

[reckless]

Does anyone have the wise Anderson wand? Is it any good?
What is the diameter of the wand?
Where can you buy it from?
Does anyone have a link.

I've got a very sore obturator internus muscle.

Ever since this muscle became sore I have scrotal and penile pain as well as buttock and leg pain/numbness. Libido has almost gone completely and it's difficult to ejaculate.

I've read that the pudendal, sciatic and post femoral cutaneous nerve run through this muscle.

I've been to a physio who does trigger point release. But I feel that in order to address this properly I need to massage the muscle at least twice a day myself.

Thanks

The trigger point is hard to reach so I'd like to buy the wand to assist me.

[webslave]

Email [email protected] (Pain Clinic in Netherlands) and ask them if they'll sell it to you. Please report back here; I'm interested to hear the answer.

[yoink15]

Just FYI twice a day is probably too much.
Tim Sawyer recommends using the wand for internal massage no more than once every 48 to 72 hours.

[burnout]

@webslave I have asked there but they only sell it in combination with doing a treatment there

@yoink15 Thanks! This is good to know, I always did it every 24 hours. I'm switching to 48 hours now.
Does Tim Sawyer also do internal massage along the perineum? I am wondering how to do this without putting any pressure on the prostate.

[yoink15]

@yoink15 Thanks! This is good to know, I always did it every 24 hours. I'm switching to 48 hours now.
Does Tim Sawyer also do internal massage along the perineum? I am wondering how to do this without putting any pressure on the prostate.

This is hard. My pain and tender points in the pelvis are tightly packed almost exclusively around the prostate. As a result, all my symptoms and pain are urethra, bladder, and ejaculation related (I have no rectal pain or issues at all). So the real challenge is trying to loosen up those muscles without crushing my prostate with the tip of the wand in the process. Here I am, six months later into the Wise-Anderson Protocol, and I still have trouble visualizing exactly how big the prostate is and exactly if I'm on it specifically or just next to it with the wand. The whole area is tender for me and continues to be tender so sometimes I have no idea if I'm hitting the right points or not.

I'm thinking of flying up to see Tim Sawyer this month for a 6-month check-up and to re-evaluate what's going on with my pelvis.

[burnout]

@yoink15 I am in the same situation as you, having many tender points near my prostate. I am afraid, however, putting any pressure nearby as I've read in the "Heal Pelvic Pain" book by Amy Stein that men should never probe the area between 11 o'clock and 1 o'clock as that the area where the prostate is.
I could not find any definite number on how deep inside the prostate is located. I have found numbers on the internet reaching from 1 inch to 4 inches. I know the actual number is individual, but I don't think it varies too much.

[Mike Kavo]

You can't hurt it just probing for its location. The gland is bang on 12 o'clock. If you really want to find it look there (past the two sphincters and bang you will hit it). It is firm enough you can 100% tell you're on it! Touching it gently you will feel very little unless you push it into the bladder/sphincter, then you get a mild urination sensation (then you know you're on it). If you're standing erect you won't reach it unless you're spiderman. If you squat you can get your anatomy book and start to feel for the connections between the gland and muscles and find it is not so hard to identify, just with fingers. Should use a PT though. I did it myself but I was willing to read an anatomy book.

The Theracane I use works to go a bit deeper but it is numb so you must learn what to do with it.

This is all published guys, if you're willing to fill up your tablet and read away. There is nothing in Wise-Anderson Protocol I have not seen in other literature. The genius of Wise-Anderson Protocol was pulling it altogether in an out the box paradigm shift - without that I would NEVER have read these texts.

Don't underestimate the ability of external stretching/massage/relaxation to reach into these muscles. Commit to that more than internal stretching. If you obsess on internal alone you're slowing your recovery IMHO.

[yoink15]

Hey Mike,
Thanks for the response. For the first time in a long time I did an internal session last night where I did NOT massage or press on my prostate like I usually do. I feel better today than i usually do after internal work...so maybe all this time I've been hurting myself by putting pressure on the prostate like that.

I can certainly find my prostate every time I use the wand, it's discerning it's boundaries that are a little hard for me. I'm trying to hit muscle on either side of it as close as possible without actually hitting the prostate itself. I can certainly find it with my finger, but I can't really reach high up enough on either side it seems to get to the points I want.

I am very, very good about doing relaxation twice a day (going on six months now!) but i'm not so good on external massage and stretching. I think this is what's missing out of my protocol. During last night's internal treatment I noticed that I was NOT very sore in there at all. (I had taken a break for about two weeks from my internal treatments just to see if that would make a difference). Well, going back in there last night...it was like a completely different pelvis! I'd say about 85% of the areas that I normally press on in there were completely pain free! I was shocked! The only part(s) that hurt was the prostate itself and maybe right next to it. Like *directly* next to it. Hell, it was so close, it still could have been the prostate itself.

So that leads me to an interesting point in my recovery. If my internals are doing really well.....why am I still symptomatic? I can only assume that I have untreated external points that need work. I have to face the fact that my abdominals must be the culprit...and they are tight, I will admit. I need to good abdominal stretches and to massage and work that area....every day, I guess?

Mike, do you recommend stretching every day? External massage every day? How about twice a day? I learned the hard way that internal work in my case should not be done more than once every 48-72 hours.

[webslave]

If my internals are doing really well.....why am I still symptomatic?

Nerves and allodynia. Nerves heal slowly. You may be experiencing pain that has no cause, like amputees that can "feel" pain in a leg that is not there. Search the forum for allodynia and/or hyperalgesia.

[Mike Kavo]

Webslave has a very good point here one we do not discuss nearly enough in the community! I think you can de-sensitize in time with Wise-Anderson Protocol though without drugs. But there are drugs for this. I try to go Chemistry free as I hate side effects. One some seem successful with is one Tramadol in the morning. At that dose on par to other drugs side effects are low if you take Q with it.

Every morning/day (you will ache at the start but it goes away) I stretch. I do entire body (look up stretching sites on google and the pelvic pain books all have good guides - and ANY PT can help you here). Each stretch is held for 30 seconds - best to start at 10 seconds and work up. Don't bounce on the muscles or any of those mad things. Buy yourself a "really" good yoga mat, loose clothing and put some music on that relaxes you. You do not force it - all in good time! As you stretch you must breath in deeply, hold, then release (again in all the books how). Your posture should also be corrected. Just be careful - everything starts slowly. Walking is good also, 1-3 miles a day no matter how you get it in...I include work/shopping/outings in this. I would NOT lift heavy weights, but I do lift mild weights and do some exercises also. Also I eat well. General good health can only help not hurt.

I would not overdo internal work or touch the gland at all! It is an internal organ and bruises way too easily (should feel that below belly button area if you have done it). No more than 2-3 times a week. Strictly only after defecation and after studying anatomy of the pelvis I work each muscle slowly and carefully. Straight into a hot bath afterwards. I do some basic pelvic stretches prior to it and post it - also rub down post bath/shower with massage oil. Pressure is the thing that is hard to control - just be careful.

Massaging is also important skin rolling is good for chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome (lower abs I found a TP in so don't ignore this). You can do most of this yourself or with a PT. Tennis ball trick is being used on glutes (I find Thera Cane good enough). I massage the Perineum gently myself with my hands - do not blindly do this, see anatomy.

I still have problems with spasms from time to time. But they are not even close to as painful as they were prior to all this Wise-Anderson Protocol work!

30-60 minutes a day is fine for paradoxical work - with moment to moment all day long. Much more I think is interfering with life. Wise-Anderson Protocol is part of life, not to eat it all up. I also think you can adjust a little for you without harm, as long as the core of Wise-Anderson Protocol is kept moving.

Oh and when you toilet/ejac, don't force it either. I find that this is something not addressed in chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome patients enough.

Don't give up! Keep going,you're just in a bit of a rut here; it will come good for you! Adjust regroup and fight on!

I am not a doc and I am not paid by Wise-Anderson Protocol people check all I say with others (always use a second opinion). Bla bla bla just a normal chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome guy with nothing to sell.

[burnout]

@Mike thanks for you insights on pelvic massaging. Do you know a good pelvic anatomy book?

@yoink15 I can recommend a RumbleRoller (using the large blue one) for external work on the legs and a lacrosse ball for glutes. For the abdominal you can just use your fingers. I am doing this every day for 1-2 hours and this greatly improved my symptoms.
But be cautious with the RumbleRoller and don't do too much at the beginning, otherwise it can end in sore muscles.

[yoink15]

Burnout....wow you do 1-2 hours of work on your abdominals? Every day! Jeeze. I can barely do about 15 minutes of work on my abdominals with my fingers before they get tired. My whole Wise-Anderson Protocol takes about 90 minutes...and that's stretching, internals, externals, skin rolling AND 30 minutes of paradoxical relaxation. Maybe I'm not understanding you right but 1-2 hours a day on the abdominals seems like a lot.

[Mike Kavo]

I agree, @burnout 1-2 is a lot on one muscle group mate. But I think @burnout means his entire Wise-Anderson Protocol session is 1-2 hours a day which puts him in sync with most of us. So I will call it a typo for future readers unless @burnout wants to come back and correct me there?

I think "Myofascial Pain and Dysfunction The Trigger Point Manual THE LOWER EXTREMITIES" makes A HEADACHE IN THE PELVIS anatomy diagrams look amateur. A HEADACHE IN THE PELVIS for me is our bible and the first book to read if you have diagnosed chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome (well actually I would read Shoskes first for context) but it needs to be upgraded to a full on textbook like these books I mention to move to the next stage of entering clinical use in western hospitals. There is more literature once you read Wise-Anderson Protocol book it is not the end of the road. These incredible people did not figure it out in isolation and the breadcrumbs are all there if you look.

But I will tell you what I often do is I simply use wiki for anatomy. No don't laugh - go have a look. These pages are constructed by academics usually so they are really a good insight from "working" academics who correct each other. Some wiki pages are a joke indeed; but some are not as trolls can't really post on these pages as they have nothing to say.

I have a copy of Gray's anatomy but with it you begin to go down the route of a pre-med student something I do not want to do. But for reference if you have the cash why not.

You should get a Tablet computer (ipad/android) as they allow you to work with these books easier (Kindle app is good).

[burnout]

@yoink15 and mike

Sorry for the confusion what I've actually meant is, I am doing 1-2 hours TP every day for my whole legs, glutes and abdominal. This is just for the external TPs without any stretching. The most time takes the RumbleRoller as I am doing this really slowly and thoroughly. I will, however, stop doing abdominal now as I can't finder any trigger points there anymore. I expect that my legs and glutes are also TP free in about 1 month.

I have read somewhere else that you should only begin stretching the muscle parts once you don't have any TP there. Otherwise it is like stretching a string with a knot in it - it just makes things worse.

@yoink15 if your fingers get tired, you should use something like the Knobble II This really helped me to do some really long sessions without getting sore fingers.

[reckless]

That's a shame they don't sell just the wand. I'll have to try harder to locate the trigger point with my finger. The muscle is really sore, I can feel it all of the time.