Stress, Cortisol, HPA, CRH, adrenals, immunoneurology ...

Male pelvic pain, prostatitis, IC
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Stress, Cortisol, HPA, CRH, adrenals, immunoneurology ...

Post by webslave »

This is a work in progress, and I'd appreciate input and comments if you feel you can contribute. I am trying to tackle this complex topic while living a busy life, and unfortunately without the necessary medical training to make it simpler for me to dissect and process.

The theory of pelvic floor trigger points and pelvic myoneuropathy can still be enlarged and made richer by fully teasing out the immunoneurological aspects, specifically those dealing with hormones, the adrenal glands, mast cells, nerves, and various cytokines.

I do not have the time to master all the concepts fully, so if someone here has training in the area, feel free to comment.

I'm going to dump my current thoughts, areas of interest and quotes here for you to mull over. Some may be pertinent, some not.

Key
ACTH: Adrenocorticotropic hormone
CNS: Central nervous system
CRH: Corticotropin-releasing hormone
HPA: Hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (axis)
SNS: Sympathetic nervous system

----------------------

Dr Anderson on cortisol
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=4662

----------------------

Our page on stress
https://ucpps.men/stress-and-chronic-prostatitis-CPPS

----------------------

Landmark Chrousos paper (PMID 11080744)
full text here
Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology Volume 106 o Number 5 o November 2000 Mosby, Inc. Stress, chronic inflammation, and emotional and physical well-being: Concurrent effects and chronic sequelae. George P. Chrousos MD

Mentions the "CNS, which, through a complex CRH-dependent pathway triggers the activation of both the HPA axis and the SNS"

The HPA axis (hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis) and the SNS are peripheral limbs of the stress system
CRH, however, is also secreted peripherally at inflammatory sites (peripheral or immune CRH) and influences the immune system directly through local modulatory actions
CRH activates mast cells, which leads to the release of histamine and other contents of the mast-cell granules that subsequently cause vasodilation, increased vascular permeability, and other manifestations of inflammation

Chrousos talks about "Neuro-mast-cell connections".

Cortisol levels during the day: "Several circadian immune functions cause disease-associated diurnal changes that correspond to plasma glucocorticoid levels.[2] For example, the delayed hypersensitivity reaction, which is particularly sensitive to glucocorticoids, is greatest in the evening when glucocorticoids are low and least in the morning when they are high. The same is true for the cytokine IL-6, whose levels in plasma have a circadian rhythm, with peaks in the evening and early morning hours."

Self-reinforcing Feedback: "..nociceptive, visceral, and somatosensory afferent neurons of the peripheral nervous system from inflammatory sites acutely stimulate the noradrenergic and CRH stress systems through an ascending neural spinal or cerebral nerve route."

Image

Stress and Sickness Syndrome: Certain cytokines, particularly the proinflammatory ones (eg, TNF-alpha, IL-1, and IL-6), activate both the HPA axis and the LC-NE/SNS system (ie, the key components of the classic stress response). [2] [11] Moreover, these cytokines induce anorexia/nausea, fatigue, social withdrawal and/or depressive affect, hyperalgesia with or without headache, somnolence, sleep disturbances, temperature elevation or fever, and increases of the basal metabolic rate, adaptive changes collectively referred to as "sickness syndrome." These cytokines also activate the hepatic and other tissue synthesis of acute-phase proteins (such as C-reactive protein, cell-adhesion molecules, fibrinogen, and plasminogen activator inhibitor-1, another adaptive phenomenon referred to as the "acute phase reaction"). Stress that is associated with an immune challenge has been called "immune stress" or "inflammatory stress," which is a combination of the sickness and classic stress syndromes, along with their effects on the pain/afferent neural systems and the acute phase reaction

"...severe stress, as reported by many patients, often precedes the development of certain TH 1-mediated autoimmune states..."

The chronic pain and fatigue syndromes: Several chronic pain and fatigue syndromes (such as fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome) have been associated with chronic sickness syndrome manifestations (such as fatigue and hyperalgesia) and with hypoactivity of the stress system (Table III).[2] [19] Interestingly, these clinical manifestations and the hypocortisolism of these patients are quite reminiscent of mild glucocorticoid deficiency (Addison's disease). Patients with glucocorticoid deficiency have elevated levels of proinflammatory cytokines such as IL-6, which may explain their typical sickness syndrome manifestations.[11] [20] When we administered human recombinant IL-6 to these patients, we induced an explosive sickness syndrome that was markedly more severe than that observed in healthy control subjects. In contrast, patients with endogenous hypercortisolism showed very little or no response to IL-6 (unpublished observation).[5] It is tempting to speculate that patients with chronic pain and fatigue syndrome have an imbalance between the immune and inflammatory reactions and the stress response, which results in excessive sickness syndrome manifestations of the former versus the antithetical effects of the latter (Table II).

==========================

Theoharides on fibromyalgia

Pathogenesis is still unknown, but there has been evidence of increased corticotropin-releasing hormone
(CRH) and substance P (SP) in the CSF of FMS patients, as well as increased SP,
IL-6 and IL-8 in their serum. Increased numbers of activated mast cells were also
noted in skin biopsies. The hypothesis is put forward that FMS is a
neuro-immunoendocrine disorder where increased release of CRH and SP from neurons
in specific muscle sites triggers local mast cells to release proinflammatory and
neurosensitizing molecules. There is no curative treatment although low doses of
tricyclic antidepressants and the serotonin-3 receptor antagonist tropisetron,
are helpful. Recent nutraceutical formulations containing the natural
anti-inflammatory and mast cell inhibitory flavonoid quercetin hold promise since
they can be used together with other treatment modalities.

==============================

Cortisol, Stress (bullying), hypocortisolism, chronic pelvic pain

Key finding showing adrenals (make cortisol) are exhausted by chronic stress:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/71124.php

(note : cortisol = body's own "cortisone" - anti-inflammatory)

PubMed citations

Chronic stress associated with hyposecretion of cortisol (hypocortisolism)

Low cortisol levels have been observed in patients with different stress-related disorders such as chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, and post-traumatic stress disorder.

Cats with IC have low cortisol responses from their adrenal glands, and decreased adrenal gland size has been observed in patients with chronic fatigue syndrome, which can be a co-morbid condition in some patients with IC.


===============================

Unpublished findings by Nickel et al

Chronic pelvic pain syndrome patients show evidence of allostatic overload

Jaeseop Lee, Boston, MA; J. Curtis Nickel, Joe Downey, Kingston, ONCanada; Michael R Freeman, Jordan D Dimitrakov*, Boston, MA

Some researchers have theorized that painful bladder syndrome/interstitial cystitis PBS/IC is more than a pelvic problem that has a foundation in abnormalities of the neuroendocrine system, specifically in the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenocortical (HPA) axis. That brain-pituitary gland-adrenal gland feedback system is responsible for the “fight or flight” reactions in response to stress. When adrenal gland hormones don’t put the brakes on the feedback system, the result is called “allostatic overload.” Now, a new study implies the HPA axis may also be dysfunctional in men with CP/CPPS. In the urine and expressed prostatic fluid of men with CP/CPPS, these researchers measured levels of markers thought to indicate allostatic overload. Those markers included corticotropin releasing hormone (CRH), neuropeptide Y (NPY), dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), epidermal growth factor (EGF), and galanin. (CRH, released from the hypothalamus, stimulates the pituitary gland to release corticotropin, which in turn stimulates the adrenal gland to release various hormones, including cortisol, which “puts the brakes” on the system, and sex steroids, such as DHEA, which is a precursor of estrogen and testosterone. NPY and galanin are nervous system transmitters. EGF is a growth factor that is elevated in IC patients’ urine.) NPY and galanin levels were significantly lower and CRH and DHEA levels were significantly higher in CP/CPPS patients than in healthy men. The investigators developed a score for allostatic overload based on the medical literature about these markers and found scores to be high in men with CP/CPPS. Therapies to treat CP/CPPS could be targeted at this system.

My Notes: Sustained morning cortisol elevations are indicative of allostatic overload.

PubMed citations

Protective and damaging effects of stress mediators: central role of the brain.

The concept of allostasis and allostatic load: psychoneuroimmunological findings
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Re: Stress, Cortisol, HPA, CRH, adrenals, immunoneurology ...

Post by Rufus »

HPA Dysfunction is a topic I have brought up in the past that got little attention.
I'm glad to see it here on the forum but it's my sincerest hope that chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome is NOT related to HPA Dysfunction for if it is, what can be done to help?
Age:37 | Onset Age: 35 | Symptoms: pain in testicles that comes and goes that also switches sides-trying to find a pattern as to "why" this happens/Rectal Burn at the 6 O'clock position at my anus which tends to flare around the periphery of my anus typically after defication but no perineum pain-no "golf ball" pain. Pain in testicles worsens as I sit but not always...Pain is not always present but depresses me. Pain used to be at a very high level but has subsided in time to a low level but has not gone away. Pain used to flare after sex but not as much as before although it still like playing russian roulette./
/Lack of SleepHelped By: I haven't found anything that has helped to my knowledge. Tried many many sessions of PT, accupuncture and chiropractic care but still have not found steady relief that takes me back to a pre CPPS state.
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Re: Stress, Cortisol, HPA, CRH, adrenals, immunoneurology ...

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Well, stress itself can cause HPA dysfunction, so eliminating that would be a good start.
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Re: Stress, Cortisol, HPA, CRH, adrenals, immunoneurology ...

Post by mbaker »

Webslave,
It would seem reasonable that if CP/CPPS was really the result of some kind of auto-immune or other immunologic dysfunction that a course of corticosteroids such as methopresolone would eliminate the dysfunction and a reduction on CP/CPPS symptoms. Has anyone ever worked out a trial of various doses and lengths of treatment of steroids to test this ?

--mb
Age: 45; Onset: Jan 2007; Initial | Symptoms: perineal, pubic, penile, right testicle pain, pain while sitting; Current | Symptoms: 95% better; very seldom do I have pain now; caffeine was the culprit; Helps: No caffeine (even decaf), Red tea, Getting exercise, Pure Encapsulations Nutrient 950 multi-vitamin; Hurts: Caffeine, sometimes when my l5s1 back issue acts up.
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Re: Stress, Cortisol, HPA, CRH, adrenals, immunoneurology ...

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Re: Stress, Cortisol, HPA, CRH, adrenals, immunoneurology ...

Post by Rufus »

mbaker wrote:Webslave,
It would seem reasonable that if CP/CPPS was really the result of some kind of auto-immune or other immunologic dysfunction that a course of corticosteroids such as methopresolone would eliminate the dysfunction and a reduction on CP/CPPS symptoms. Has anyone ever worked out a trial of various doses and lengths of treatment of steroids to test this ?

--mb
I don't think problems with the HPA is some kind of auto-immune or other immunologic dysfunction, rather neurologically based and if it is, is stress reduction going to really help? I'd like to hope so but were talking about a very complex region of the brain that has been altered here...
Age:37 | Onset Age: 35 | Symptoms: pain in testicles that comes and goes that also switches sides-trying to find a pattern as to "why" this happens/Rectal Burn at the 6 O'clock position at my anus which tends to flare around the periphery of my anus typically after defication but no perineum pain-no "golf ball" pain. Pain in testicles worsens as I sit but not always...Pain is not always present but depresses me. Pain used to be at a very high level but has subsided in time to a low level but has not gone away. Pain used to flare after sex but not as much as before although it still like playing russian roulette./
/Lack of SleepHelped By: I haven't found anything that has helped to my knowledge. Tried many many sessions of PT, accupuncture and chiropractic care but still have not found steady relief that takes me back to a pre CPPS state.
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Re: Stress, Cortisol, HPA, CRH, adrenals, immunoneurology ...

Post by Rufus »

I don't know how applicable this is but I had a hormone profile done way back when and my cortisol levels came out ok, however I'd like to know how those levels fluctuate over a 24hr period.
Age:37 | Onset Age: 35 | Symptoms: pain in testicles that comes and goes that also switches sides-trying to find a pattern as to "why" this happens/Rectal Burn at the 6 O'clock position at my anus which tends to flare around the periphery of my anus typically after defication but no perineum pain-no "golf ball" pain. Pain in testicles worsens as I sit but not always...Pain is not always present but depresses me. Pain used to be at a very high level but has subsided in time to a low level but has not gone away. Pain used to flare after sex but not as much as before although it still like playing russian roulette./
/Lack of SleepHelped By: I haven't found anything that has helped to my knowledge. Tried many many sessions of PT, accupuncture and chiropractic care but still have not found steady relief that takes me back to a pre CPPS state.
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Re: Stress, Cortisol, HPA, CRH, adrenals, immunoneurology ...

Post by neis »

Hi Rufus, how did you end up getting a hormone profile. Did your doc recommend it? Did you ask your doc to order it? Did you order it on your own? My HMO docs have no insight to the causes of this condition, and honestly don't seem to care by their lack of follow-up in my case. If I was to ask my doc to order a hormone profile, he'd laugh. A little guidance is appreciated.
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Re: Stress, Cortisol, HPA, CRH, adrenals, immunoneurology ...

Post by Rufus »

My urologist at the time ordered those tests by his own accord. I asked him to include cortisol as I was researching every possible cause of chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome and came accross the very scary notion of HPA dysfunction and it's relation to CPPS.

When I asked him to include it he just shrugged and agreed to do it.

All of my tests came out normal except testosterone which was 180 but several weeks after I retested and it came to about 500.

I don't know if this helps but that's all I can offer based on my experience.
Age:37 | Onset Age: 35 | Symptoms: pain in testicles that comes and goes that also switches sides-trying to find a pattern as to "why" this happens/Rectal Burn at the 6 O'clock position at my anus which tends to flare around the periphery of my anus typically after defication but no perineum pain-no "golf ball" pain. Pain in testicles worsens as I sit but not always...Pain is not always present but depresses me. Pain used to be at a very high level but has subsided in time to a low level but has not gone away. Pain used to flare after sex but not as much as before although it still like playing russian roulette./
/Lack of SleepHelped By: I haven't found anything that has helped to my knowledge. Tried many many sessions of PT, accupuncture and chiropractic care but still have not found steady relief that takes me back to a pre CPPS state.
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Re: Stress, Cortisol, HPA, CRH, adrenals, immunoneurology ...

Post by Clay »

There is a cortisol saliva test that can ordered over the internet in the US. You get 4 tubes in a kit and fill them with saliva at 4 times of the day. It can be ordered from http://www.canaryclub.org for $150. It seems to show a very different picture from a typical cortisol blood test, which practically no one flunks. Naturopaths like it, but MDs just laugh, believe me.

I visited an endocrinologist about my various hormone levels fluctuating. He was very up front. Endos treat Addisons or Cushings - diseases where your glands either go totally into overdrive or else quit altogether. Endos dont recognize anything in between, like the ever suspicious 'adrenal fatigue'. I was taking 20md/day of hydrocortisone at the time and he was insistent that I stop it or I kill my adrenals and then I'd be in the hospital. It was as unpleasant as visiting a clueless uro.

I don't think the hydrocortisone helped my pelvic pain. It was prescribed by a fatigue specialist. Some docs think 20-30 mg a day is safe and rests your adrenals. Endos think it puts them to sleep permanently. I was so sick and trying so many things at the time it wasn't a really good test.
I am not a doctor too!
Age 64, sudden onset 5/06 during bout of flu, colitis, lung and liver problems. Pain in penis, then moved to rectum. No urinary symptoms. Use Lyrica, Elavil, paxil, Xanax, morphine, vicodin, relaxation, pads for sitting, 100+ PT sessions. Sensitive to gluten, milk protein, soy. I have CFS, anxiety, GERD, Barrett's, colitis, kidney stones, one of which referred pain to penis.
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Re: Stress, Cortisol, HPA, CRH, adrenals, immunoneurology ...

Post by webslave »

BBC News wrote:A major part of the neuroendocrine system - which releases hormones - also seemed to be disturbed by stress, evidenced by the fact that anxious workers had higher levels of the stress hormone cortisol in the morning.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7203088.stm
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Re: Stress, Cortisol, HPA, CRH, adrenals, immunoneurology ...

Post by Rufus »

...Acute and chronic stress can have devastating effects on the brain, and Yale School of Medicine researchers have pinpointed one receptor that plays a key role in that harmful cycle .... IL-1ß is a cytokine—or signaling compound—that promotes inflammation. Previous animal studies showed that exposure to stress increases IL-1ß in several brain areas, including the hippocampus. It also has been demonstrated that administering IL-1ß produces several stress-like effects in the hypothalamus, pituitary, and adrenal system as well as the hippocampus.
http://www.healthnewsdigest.com/news/Re ... rain.shtml
Age:37 | Onset Age: 35 | Symptoms: pain in testicles that comes and goes that also switches sides-trying to find a pattern as to "why" this happens/Rectal Burn at the 6 O'clock position at my anus which tends to flare around the periphery of my anus typically after defication but no perineum pain-no "golf ball" pain. Pain in testicles worsens as I sit but not always...Pain is not always present but depresses me. Pain used to be at a very high level but has subsided in time to a low level but has not gone away. Pain used to flare after sex but not as much as before although it still like playing russian roulette./
/Lack of SleepHelped By: I haven't found anything that has helped to my knowledge. Tried many many sessions of PT, accupuncture and chiropractic care but still have not found steady relief that takes me back to a pre CPPS state.
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Re: Stress, Cortisol, HPA, CRH, adrenals, immunoneurology ...

Post by Rufus »

The team blocked the effects of IL-1ß with an inhibitor, resulting in blockade of cell cycle arrest.

“This is the first study to show how IL-1ß—when activated by acute and chronic stress—arrests the cell cycle,” said Ronald Duman, professor of psychiatry and pharmacology.
Age:37 | Onset Age: 35 | Symptoms: pain in testicles that comes and goes that also switches sides-trying to find a pattern as to "why" this happens/Rectal Burn at the 6 O'clock position at my anus which tends to flare around the periphery of my anus typically after defication but no perineum pain-no "golf ball" pain. Pain in testicles worsens as I sit but not always...Pain is not always present but depresses me. Pain used to be at a very high level but has subsided in time to a low level but has not gone away. Pain used to flare after sex but not as much as before although it still like playing russian roulette./
/Lack of SleepHelped By: I haven't found anything that has helped to my knowledge. Tried many many sessions of PT, accupuncture and chiropractic care but still have not found steady relief that takes me back to a pre CPPS state.
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Re: Stress, Cortisol, HPA, CRH, adrenals, immunoneurology ...

Post by webslave »

Image
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Re: Stress, Cortisol, HPA, CRH, adrenals, immunoneurology ...

Post by Rufus »

Are you saying that this diagram depicts chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome as some form of pelvic fibromyalgia?
Age:37 | Onset Age: 35 | Symptoms: pain in testicles that comes and goes that also switches sides-trying to find a pattern as to "why" this happens/Rectal Burn at the 6 O'clock position at my anus which tends to flare around the periphery of my anus typically after defication but no perineum pain-no "golf ball" pain. Pain in testicles worsens as I sit but not always...Pain is not always present but depresses me. Pain used to be at a very high level but has subsided in time to a low level but has not gone away. Pain used to flare after sex but not as much as before although it still like playing russian roulette./
/Lack of SleepHelped By: I haven't found anything that has helped to my knowledge. Tried many many sessions of PT, accupuncture and chiropractic care but still have not found steady relief that takes me back to a pre CPPS state.