Any pain killer for urge?

[MBey]

I'm wondering if there is any pain killer which can release the urge/frequency?

I know that the usual pain killers don't work but I often have such a problem that I even can't sleep not to mention to work again.

Some years ago I was so stupid to try a ecstasy pill but that time I recognized that I had the whole evening and night no urge at all.

Certainly, I don't want to take MDMA (substance of content in ecstasy) again, but this showed me that there is a possibility to avoid the urge.

So, are there some more harder pain killers like morphine which can decrease urge symptoms?

Thanks!

[kevin]

I would agree that you should stay away from any illegal/recreational drugs.

There was someone who posted here previously saying that he got better when he took ecstacy. Maybe you can check out his post to see if you can learn anythng.

Anyway, ecstacy (MDMA) is an amphetamine derivative. Maybe you can talk to your doctor about taking an ADD medication like Ritalin or Adderall, which might have a similar mode of action. Another thing to consider would be a serotonin-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor (SNRI), like Cymbalta.

If you really want to figure out what about that drug helped you, you could consider that MDMA works on three systems -- adrenergic, serotonergic, and dopaminergic. You could take an agonist for each of those symptoms, like this:
-Adrenergic: alpha agonist (e.g. clonidine/oxymetazoline) or beta agonist (isoproterenol)
-Serotonergic: an SSRI like fluoxetine
-Dopaminergic: I don't know much about this system, but you can read about dopamine agonists online.

I personally have very bad symptoms of frequency/urgency, and had success taking Cymbalta and alpha-2 adrenergic agonists (clonidine/oxymetazoline).

Remember to talk to your doctor about the pros/cons of these drugs. And be careful to avoid side effects. This is not medical advice.

Let us know how you do if you try any of these.

[Sleeper Service]

The poster was DJ Smitty.

[Danzig1788]

I'm wondering if there is any pain killer which can release the urge/frequency?

I know that the usual pain killers don't work but I often have such a problem that I even can't sleep not to mention to work again.
(...)
So, are there some more harder pain killers like morphine which can decrease urge symptoms?

Thanks!

I´m taking a dosis of 0,6mg of buprenorphine a day. I used to dake 1,6 mg a day, but the current dosis is just as effectice as the higher one. I took 3 mg of methadone a day before that (for eight month or so) since gabapentin didn´t work for me (not to mention a lot of other "normal" painkillers). Methadon and Gabapentin both made me appear like a zombie (just my personal experience) so I wouldn´t suggest them at all.
Buprenorphin works a bit different than a lot of other opiods, it doesn´t get you that tired and you can work or study just fine. But be warned:
They are very addictive which can suck (my doctor was on a three week holiday lately so I hat to get one of those yellow german BTM prescriptions from another doc; it worked out in the end but what if it wouldn´t have? What if the insurance refuses to pay for it someday!?), so think twice.
Unfortunately, opiods can also trigger mast cells (i never really got into the whole thing but it´s nothing good I suppose - there´s information on this site if you´re interested).
Without buprenorphine however, I would not have been able to finish my college work in time, since I had a lot of bad flares.
Now that I got my diploma in "social work", I plan to work harder on the Stanford/Wise-Anderson Protocol, and I would be more than glad of I could live without "bupe" someday. Have you tried the Stanford/Wise-Anderson Protocol already? Since you´re from switzerland, I know a real good physio who knows the SP very well. She is located in Zürich, and I travelled there all the way from Bremen, germany just to get in touch with someone who knows the SP. Her name is Jaqueline Mustafic and she is located at Albersriederplatz (i´m pretty sure the spelling is correct, PM me if you wish to have more infos on her). Seriously, I wish i´d live in switzerland, you guys good some real good physios there.
Best wishes,
danzig

[MBey]

@kevin: I tried Tramadol today to decrease the frequency and urge as my urologist said that I should try this first, but it didn't change anything.

I haven't read about someone who could decrease the frequency by Tramadol. Do you know someone or does it seem that only the hardest opiates may work for that?

Could you achieve a really noticeable release of your frequency by taking Cymbalta and alpha-2 adrenergic agonists?
Which one do you recommend for me for a try?
Did it work after one pill?
How much do you usually take?

[scotsman]

I never noticed Tramadol reducing the frequency feelings when I had them (I was taking around 250mg a day then).

Richard.

[MBey]

Is there any "pain" killer whatever how strong it is which can help reducing the frequency/urge at all or does urinary urge work by a totally different mechanism?

[kevin]

Could you achieve a really noticeable release of your frequency by taking Cymbalta and alpha-2 adrenergic agonists?
Which one do you recommend for me for a try?
Did it work after one pill?
How much do you usually take?

I achieved about a 75% reduction in my symptoms by taking those drugs.

The first one I would try (after consulting your doctor) is Cymbalta, or maybe an ADD medication. The reason is that you'd want to cast your net wide to see if anything works at all -- these drugs target a lot of different receptors. For example, Cymbalta targets all adrenergic receptors (alpha-1, alpha-2, beta-1, beta-2, beta-3) as well as serotonin receptors. Then, if you find it works, you might want to try with a drug that works just on alpha-2 or beta-3 receptors to see if you can narrow down exactly what is helping you.

But going by another line of thinking, maybe you'd want to try an ADD medication. Although it is unusual to talk about taking an ADD medication to cure urinary frequency, those would be the most chemically similar to the MDMA you took. In fact, Ritalin reduced my symptoms (although not as much as Cymbalta or Afrin). It just might be a challenge to get a doctor on board with this; he or she would have to be open to experimenting a bit. (Which is why I mentioned Brigitte Schurch, who is a very accomplished research doctor.)

For me, it took at least three days to start seeing an effect. I forgot the dose I took, but I knew it was a regular dosage.

Is there any "pain" killer whatever how strong it is which can help reducing the frequency/urge at all or does urinary urge work by a totally different mechanism?

There is some overlap between the sensory systems for pain and urinary urgency. For example, alpha-2 agonists act to block pain in the spinal cord. This is one reason that Elavil and Cymbalta, both of which act on alpha-2 receptors, are used for pain. In hospitals, alpha-2 agonists are often injected into the spinal cord for analgesia during surgery. I think it helped my urinary frequency in a similar way, by blocking it from being processed in the spinal cord (although my reaction to these drugs is fairly unusual).

Remember to proceed with caution and to consider everything before going along with this.

Another thing you might want to do is to go to Google Scholar and to do a search like

Code: Select all

(amphetamine OR mdma OR ecstasy) (micturition OR bladder OR urinary)

You might find some interesting papers or case reports.[/code]

[MBey]

I really love this forum as there are guys like you kevin who are doing a absolute great job!

I saw Dr. Schurch some weeks ago asking for her opinion on doing a third Botox injection directly in the levator ani. Unfortunately she didn't know as much about Botox together with chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome as other doctors like Prof. Schmid at the University hospital in Zürich or Dr. Schulte-Baukloh at the Charite in Berlin (pelvic floor center together with urology). She is a specialist for paraplegic problems so that she should know a lot about nerve problems.

Probably Cymbalta is the best first shot I should do. I'm pretty sure that Dr. Schurch will be open for such experiments, but unfortunately it usually takes always several weeks to get an appointment with such experts.

Is your current situation so good that you don't need that kind of drugs at the moment or did you get some hard side effects so that you quit?

It sounds strange for me that it took three days to see any effects although it is similar to my amitryptilin experiences.

Do you still know how high your Cymbalta dosage was?

[kevin]

I really love this forum as there are guys like you kevin who are doing a absolute great job!

I saw Dr. Schurch some weeks ago asking for her opinion on doing a third Botox injection directly in the levator ani. Unfortunately she didn't know as much about Botox together with chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome as other doctors like Prof. Schmid at the University hospital in Zürich or Dr. Schulte-Baukloh at the Charite in Berlin (pelvic floor center together with urology). She is a specialist for paraplegic problems so that she should know a lot about nerve problems.

Probably Cymbalta is the best first shot I should do. I'm pretty sure that Dr. Schurch will be open for such experiments, but unfortunately it usually takes always several weeks to get an appointment with such experts.

Is your current situation so good that you don't need that kind of drugs at the moment or did you get some hard side effects so that you quit?

It sounds strange for me that it took three days to see any effects although it is similar to my amitryptilin experiences.

Do you still know how high your Cymbalta dosage was?

Just glad to be of help buddy.

All of those doctors you mention sound like they know their stuff. (I base this on the research they have published.)

The main problem for me was that those drugs wore off after about 2 weeks, so I have to take a break after a while. And afterwards I got some side effects such as thirst and bloating. I'm planning to try an alpha-2 agonist again, but with a different dosing plan, and I want to figure out why exactly the drugs wear off so quickly before I try them again.

Still don't know what the Cymbalta dosage was; this is more than a year ago. Since then, I have moved on to more pharmacologically specific drugs. Maybe 1 tablet a day, but I have no idea.

[kenn101]

I have found Elavil has worked quite well for urgency in my case. I now only get up 2 times at the most during the night to urinate, before I was getting up every 2 hour through the night. You must do research on this medication and weigh out the pros and cons before considering using this or any other medication or supplement. Just because it has benefited me doesn't mean you will get the same result from it.

Ken

[MBey]

Amitryptilin had certainly a little effect for the frequency but as I took it 2-3 years after a while I suppose it was the reason for the beginning libido decrease.

I had the feeling that with decreasing the nerve signals from the bladder area which led to the higher bladder capacity the sensitivity from the penis vanished.

After 8 years of suffering from CPPS/LUTS all the problems were gone for about one year. But with it the libido was totally down so that I had pretty strong ED problems. Then when the whole CPPS/LUTS pathology came back the libido problem was almost totally gone.

So for me I think it has also a lot to do with nerve signals, means if they are alleviated the CPPS/LUTS problem vanish but unfortunately also the sensitivity of the penis.

Therefore I'm not really keen on using Amitryptilin.

Anybody with similar experiences?

[webslave]

In place of Elavil, try mirtazapine (Remeron) -- better than Elavil. It's a similar but cleaner drug.

[MBey]

Mirtazapine seems to have a lower risk of sexual side effects.

Has anybody tried Trazodon?

It is also a more selective antidepressant, but instead of amitriptylin and more or less mirtazapine trazodon shall rather improve libido and erection than worsen them.

It is also used against chronic pain but does everybody have heard of an effect on urinary frequency and urge?

[MBey]

@kevin:
I'm wondering if you had any sexual dysfunction side effects?

I've read that adrenoceptors and SSRIs are often linked to sexual side effects.

Means probably that when I follow this path I have to expect sexual dysfunctions or have you heard about specific drugs in this area without these kind of side effects?