Weird symptoms, jelqing, penis enlargement

[N2Deep]

Hi, I'm new, only 20 and had this chronic pelvic muscle spasm and TP's for a few years (just figured this puzzle of symptoms out), and have most of the regular symptoms, though I have some I have yet to see described, and they are my most frustrating ones in life. if anyone can relate or reply its much appreciated.

Spastic Pain at ejaculation (and recently cramping), afterwards penis is inflamed (HOT,RED, TENDER) and most often throbbing sore (I'm always out of commission for at least a day) if I ejaculate again my penis will be very sore. If I have an erection for more than five minutes my penis becomes semi-inflamed.

Corpus Cavernosa are way too hard, brittle and extremely inflexible, while corpus spongiosum rarely inflates correctly or at all.

And when an erection subsides, the CC remains hard and feeling uncomfortable while CS deflates leaving me literally FLAT. It doesn't look right or healthy at all. Low blood flow.

The pelvic floor spasms cause my penis to jump when I'm semi-erect (several times stronger than if I manually tensed the pc muscle( it sort of hurts) and feels damaging. Another thing that causes spasms is moving around while erect. Moving from sitting or lying position has to be done extremely slowly or I'll have a spasm and with that, pain. In fact, I can only actually push my penis to the side, down or up a few degrees when erect before feeling great resistance. very stiffly rooted (TENSE PELVIC MUSCLES?)

If I have ejaculated, I will not get nocturnal erections for at least 3 days. After that they start to come back. But again, the corpus cavernosa is hard, brittle and uncomfortable and the corpus spongiosum is totally deflated. Hard to urinate(also hard to not have pelvic floor muscle spasms while starting and stopping urine flow).

Could this inflammation, low penis blood flow, and lack of elasticity that is causing my most frustrating problems be caused by the always tense pelvic muscles? its almost like an auto-immune disorder attacking healthy tissue.

Anyone who read that I thank you.

Pleez reply

[webslave]

Firstly, I'm not sure you are abnormal in any way. Regarding the tenderness, how often do you masturbate?

To help others understand your references, here are two diagrams:

[boulder]

I have the same symptoms as part of my CPPS: erection with extremely rigid corpus cavernosa, flaccid corpus spongiosum, post-ejaculation pain. I also notice my penis appears smaller than usual when having a flare-up, with the skin seemingly tighter and cooler to the touch. I notice some discoloration, and what may be light bruising on the glans. Often my scrotum and testicles will be pulled up tight as well. My guess is that muscle spasms and restricted blood flow (ischemia?) are to blame, but I'm no doctor...

[N2Deep]

hey thanks webslave for that diagram.

Boulder, you hit the nail on the head in that post, everything you said. I also have discoloration and bruising on my glans, I didn't even think that was worth adding.
What have you been doing to tackle this problem?

[webslave]

Well, firstly, discolouration of the glans is very common, even in normal men. A lot of the other things you mention are normal too: penis is too stiff to bend this way and that (Lucky you! Many men would kill for that. Your penis is simply well attached and the erection is very strong - hey, you're young, it should be); "corpus spongiosum rarely inflates" -- it's not supposed to get rock hard, since it surrounds the urethra (it becomes more rigid during orgasm); the oval cross-sectional shape of the penis after orgasm is normal; spasms that make your penis jump are normal if you've been using the penis sexually a lot (it can become hyperreactive if overstimulated, so leave it alone for a while); noctural erections - how do you know you are not getting them, since they occur during sleep?; "brittle penis" - the penis fully erect is not elastic or malleable (unless you're a washed up porn star ) ; penis red, hot, tender after sex is not abnormal, and any man will tell you his penis looks a little the worse for wear after a heavy session of coital activity.

The only thing that raises a flag is your report of actual pain after ejaculation.

Now I can already see that you have an anxious disposition and an element of obsessional thinking, which does put you at risk for chronic pelvic pain. Read all you can here, and if you feel you have enough commonality with us, get the book, and take it from there.

[boulder]

First let me agree with Webslave and say that yes, anxiety and obsessive or catastrophic thinking, which we as a group are more prone to, are counter-productive. It is very important to stay calm, rational, and in the present moment, however troubling your symptoms are. That said, I don't think the possibility should be discounted that the symptoms N2Deep described could be connected.

I'm of course speaking only for myself here, but for me the symptoms described above all started with my chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome about 1.5 years ago and are still only present when I have a flare-up. During a flare-up, I experience a very unpleasant prolonged stiffness in my penis which is not an erection, at least not one of any kind I ever experienced before chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome (the penis is not increased in size, nor is it stiff enough for penetrative sex). When I do get an erection during a flare-up, it is exactly the unbalanced engorged cavernosa/empty spongiosum type N2Deep described. My erections were balanced before I developed CPPS.

When I'm not having a flare-up, the appearance, skin temperature, and rigidity of penis is back to normal (normal for me pre-CPPS I mean, not comparing myself to any imagined normal). My erections and ejaculation are normal as well when I'm not having a flare-up, though ejaculating can spark a flare-up.

Personally my problems are largely of the lower urinary tract type. I started with LUTS symptoms that progressed to a complex regional pain syndrome. I made the mistake of doing tons of Kegels and sit-ups when I first noticed the first LUTS symptoms (there's that obsessional thinking), which only made things worse. Don't do Kegels!

Over the last 6 months I've managed to get rid of a lot of the additional myofascial tension/pain symptoms with diaphragmatic breathing, progressive relaxation, and stretching a la the Stanford/Wise-Anderson Protocol (see "A Headache in the Pelvis"), and am left with the LUTS symptoms I started with: intermittent pain and (urinary/erectile) dysfunction in the penis and perineum.

Speaking again only for myself, I think the "anchor" for my syndrome is a spastic or hypertonic urethral sphincter. I'm currently trying to figure out a way to take Flomax that won't give me terrible heartburn, because Flomax seems to relax my urethral sphincter quite effectively. I can feel other myofascial pain and tension trying to take hold, but with my urethral shincter relaxed and stretching calming my skeletal muscles, flare-ups ups aren't really able to get going.

In short, my advice to N2Deep, is:

1) RELAX
2) see a doctor and ask about Flomax, especially if you have urninary symptoms
3) get a copy of "A Headache in the Pelvis" and try the breathing, relaxation, and stretching routine outlined therein

...and also, don't masturbate seated in front of the computer. This a crackpot theory of mine, but I think that having erections/ejaculation in that hunched-over posture are bad for muscle function. The abdominal wall musculature might end up involved in the process in a different way than it would in a more natural posture. But again, I'm not a doctor...

[webslave]

During a flare-up, I experience a very unpleasant prolonged stiffness in my penis which is not an erection, at least not one of any kind I ever experienced before chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome (the penis is not increased in size, nor is it stiff enough for penetrative sex). When I do get an erection during a flare-up, it is exactly the unbalanced engorged cavernosa/empty spongiosum type N2Deep described. My erections were balanced before I developed CPPS.

Well if this is true, then we may have discovered another possible symptom of CPPS. The cause would have to be entirely neurological. But without being able to ask completely normal men if they experience the same symptoms, I don't see how we can decide that spontaneous, non-sexual semi-erections or "flat" erections denote pathology.

When I'm not having a flare-up, the appearance, skin temperature, and rigidity of penis is back to normal (normal for me pre-CPPS I mean, not comparing myself to any imagined normal). My erections and ejaculation are normal as well when I'm not having a flare-up, though ejaculating can spark a flare-up.

I can't say I remember this happening to me, but can anyone else confirm this?

Personally my problems are largely of the lower urinary tract type. I started with LUTS symptoms that progressed to a complex regional pain syndrome.

Careful. CRPS is a different beast to CPPS.

Over the last 6 months I've managed to get rid of a lot of the additional myofascial tension/pain symptoms with diaphragmatic breathing,

Good point. We should talk more about breathing and the importance of diaphragmatic breathing here, and we don't.

I'm currently trying to figure out a way to take Flomax that won't give me terrible heartburn, because Flomax seems to relax my urethral sphincter quite effectively.

Exactly the same as me. Here's a trick: raise the head of your bed 6" (15cm) from the floor. This stops the stomach contents washing up the oesophagus when you lie down.

[boulder]

Careful. CRPS is a different beast to CPPS.

Oops, you're exactly right. All this medical nomenclature is still a little new to me.

Thanks for the Flomax tip Webslave, I will try it!

[carld]

Boulder, you may want to try a proton pump inhibitor like Prilosec to help with the stomach acid while you try Flomax. Uroxatral is also very effective in relaxing the smooth muscles of the prostate and bladder neck, with out the retrograde ejaculation that some men complain about. I'm not a doctor, these are things that work for me.

[N2Deep]

Aah, so much to say, where to begin.

Webslave: thanks and sorry for the confusion, the symptoms I described above were only those I had not seen mentioned on this site, I have many other symptoms of CPPS, I just wanted to keep my first post relatively short. I do not have these chronic PAINS people describe; but trigger points, spasm, cramping, hard to urinate and defecate and chronic tensing of the pelvic muscles are definitely problems. I also own the book: HITP.
I'm really happy in a weird way that I've found someone else with the EXACT same symptoms.

A lot of the other things you mention are normal too: penis is too stiff to bend this way and that (Lucky you! Many men would kill for that.

I agree when you think erection, you think hard. This is not a good hard, its a painful, uncomfortable, non-pleasurable hard thats virtually impossible to have sex with in any other position than missionary or doggy and it has to be very slow......bottom line: my cock will literally snap if anything at all happens, and its not compressible too, making insertion painful. Only once in a while is it not THAT BAD, enough to make me realize it ain't normal. Its like the Pelvic muscles are so tense they are pulling the penis in towards the body, which is what I think causes my penis not to be able to be pushed to the sides or up and down at all.

the penis fully erect is not elastic or malleable (unless you're a washed up porn star

Isn't a pornstar the pinnacle of penile health? Would those guys BE pornstars if they weren't?
See, I know what my cock felt like healthy, I used to do Penis enlargement excercises (jelqing, penis stretching) which when done safe and correct, there is nothing better for penis health, and my penis when getting correct blood flow through jelqing, looked like a pornstar cock, and was Hard and veiny while also having elasticity. But the insane bloodflow I was getting was just masking the lack of blood I was getting because of this pelvic problem.

Also, when having a so-called flare up, which is about half the time or ANYTIME AFTER PROLONGED ERECTION (ten minutes...lol) OR EJACULATION; this hardness also happens when I'm flaccid, thats right, My penis can be as stiff and brittle when flaccid (just smaller) as when erect. But if I haven't ejaculated in a while I won't get this flaccid flare up. And my penis will have elasticity(flaccid). The only thing that takes the flaccid stiffness away and makes it normal is a really hot shower or go in a sauna (heats up and loosens and relaxes the muscles?)

I almost forgot, when my pelvic muscles spasm, causing my penis to jump, mostly when urinating, defecating. after it happens, my penis shrivels and gets that HARDNESS I'm talking about in the flaccid state depending on the intensity of spasm. so this is indefinitely caused by overworked PC muscles.
What I beleive causes this, is the muscles that are supposed to relax to have an erection as well as urinate, defecate are not. And are working far harder than their made to.

I definitely do agree that anxiety and obsessive or catastrophic thinking make the problems worse.

...and also, don't masturbate seated in front of the computer. This a crackpot theory of mine, but I think that having erections/ejaculation in that hunched-over posture are bad for muscle function. The abdominal wall musculature might end up involved in the process in a different way than it would in a more natural posture.

Definitely, I cannot sit while erect it is painful, and I stopped sitting watching porn long ago. And also, Kegels are the devil, they make the problems sooo much worse. Though they are vital to a healthy man.

During a flare-up, I experience a very unpleasant prolonged stiffness in my penis which is not an erection, at least not one of any kind I ever experienced before chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome (the penis is not increased in size, nor is it stiff enough for penetrative sex). When I do get an erection during a flare-up, it is exactly the unbalanced engorged cavernosa/empty spongiosum type N2Deep described. My erections were balanced before I developed CPPS.

Well if this is true, then we may have discovered another possible symptom of CPPS. The cause would have to be entirely neurological. But without being able to ask completely normal men if they experience the same symptoms, I don't see how we can decide that spontaneous, non-sexual semi-erections or "flat" erections denote pathology. .

It reads on the back of Headache in the pelvis : "The state of chronic constriction creates pain-referring trigger points, REDUCED BLOOD FLOW, and an INHOSPITABLE ENVIRONMENT for the nerves, BLOOD VESSELS and structures throughout the pelvic basin"
......Now imagine,.the pelvic muscles are chronically tensed that means through ischemia, boulder pointed out that our penises are lacking blood flow, imagine they get only 50% of normal , what does it do? It shrivels, that means it gets hard, that hardness means lack of cleaning, and low lymph flow....and that causes slight scarring and over time serious scarring in the Corpus Cavernosa....use it or lose it, has never had such meaning as in a penis. I'm not saying I think thats the case, but it will happen over time in this situation.

Sorry this post was long and all over the place, I hope it's readable. I tried to get all my points down (though thats impossible). I'm nowhere near done just hoping this will spark more conversation. Good day guys.

[webslave]

I used to do Penis enlargement excercises (jelqing, penis stretching) which when done safe and correct, there is nothing better for penis health, and my penis when getting correct blood flow through jelqing, looked like a pornstar cock, and was Hard and veiny while also having elasticity. But the insane bloodflow I was getting was just masking the lack of blood I was getting because of this pelvic problem.

Oh-oh.

From another website:

Jelqing workouts are based around a daily jelq session of around 20-30 minutes. The exercises usually start with a penis warm-up. The warm-up involves a warm bath or a towel soaked in warm water applied to the penis. The warm-up is to increase blood flow to the penis and prepare it for the jelq exercises. Once the warm-up is completed, the jelq techniques can be commenced. Jelqing should only be attempted with a semi-tumescent (semi-erect) penis, never on an erect penis. Some lubricant should be applied beforehand and the hand-grip should completely encircle the base of the penis thus ensuring that no blood escapes from the penis. The penis is then milked, moving towards the head and forcing the blood toward the end of the penis. 100-200 jelq movements is the average workout. The jelqing exercises should be stopped immediately if any pain becomes apparent or the penis becomes erect. Ejaculation should not be allowed to occur and if the urge becomes apparent then a pause from exercising is worthwhile. Likewise, jelqing should be ceased should any pain or discomfort become apparent. After several months, penis size increases, both in girth or length should become apparent. After a year, gains of several inches in length are not uncommon.

Another website says:

elqing (also known as milking) is an exercise designed to force large amounts of blood through the penis, increasing the internal pressure and creating controlled damage or micro-tears in the structure of the penis.

And wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penis_enla ... 6_Clamping

N2Deep, I would say this may have caused the problem you now have. It's just my opinion and I am not a doctor, so I could very well be wrong.

See:
http://www.medhelp.org/forums/Urology/m ... 31657.html
http://www.teenhealthfx.com/answers/Sexuality/4748.html


Final quote:

Stretching exercises, weights, and stretching devices: Those promoting these technics offer a variety of explanations for how they work, but most of these explanations are contrary to the facts about how the penis is constructed. Some parts of the body can be enlarged by mechanical stretching, but this has never been shown to occur with the penis, and most experts doubt the tissue involved can be expanded in this way. Still, given the theoretical possibility, and the lack of independently verified studies of any of these techniques, there is no valid science to support saying these methods don't work. On the other hand, there is also no valid science to support saying the methods do work. What has also not been determined is if these methods can cause any permanent harm. Some urologist have voiced concerns about scaring, nerve damage, damage to the blood vessels, and Peyronie's disease (bent penis syndrome). While there are isolated claims of such damage, the evidence to date is far from conclusive. In time we will know if these methods are safe or harmful, but it will take two decades to conclusively prove safety, and if it's not safe what will those who went ahead and tried these methods do then?

# Jelqing: The Jelq is the most common method of penis enlargement being touted today. Basically jelqing consists of a "milking" motion down the penis that is supposed to gradually increase both length and circumference. A study of sites advocating this technique sends up several red flags.

* The technique is said to be something used by men in the Middle East for centuries. But no one can back that claim up, and when WebMD.com researched jelqing they reported that "Sex historian Vern Bullough says he has never heard of it, and queries to the Kinsey Institute and professors of Middle Eastern studies at several universities shed no more light on the matter." (article no longer available)

* Many sites suggest that enlargement is cause by breaking down and building up the tissues of the penis just like you exercise to make you biceps larger. But there are no tissues in the penis that respond this way.

* The specifics of how to jelq vary widely from site to site. Some insist it won't work unless done with a full erection, while others warn that doing it with a full erection will cause damage.

[N2Deep]

No one has ever reported anything like this happening with jelqing, and the most people ever get is a thrombosed vein. and guess what, I've always gone REAL EASY and the only time I ever thrombosed a vein was 8 months ago, masturbating, and I haven't done any jelqing and 2 years .....so you see again, THIS ISN'T ****ING CONNECTED.