"Anti-Kegal" exercises

[cr]

Do there exist such exercises that are the exact opposite to Kegal's? I've understood that Kegal's exercise mainly involves contracting the "pc muscle" (the muscle running from behind the testicles towards the anus). It's the same muscle that you use to force ejaculations / erections, wiggle your penis etc, right?

Now, I started observing this muscle today, and realised that it does indeed does seem to be contracted or at least not very relaxed most of the time. This is (as are my symptoms) at its worst when I need to empty my bladder / bowels.

Now, are there any exercises to "force" it to relax? I tried "pushing it down", by using the muscles around the anus and in the perineum used to force bowel movements as well as helping with my abdominal muscles. I try to achieve this with minimal muscle effort. I keep the muscle pushed down for a bit, and then let it come back up - making sure I don't pull/suck it up into its contracted state. Interstingly, as soon as I shift focus away from the muscle, its tends to get sucked back up.

Am I doing more harm than good? Is the "sucked up" state its normal state, or is it indeed contracted in this position and hence by pushing it down it becomes relaxed?

Has anyone done anything similar with success, or even better, is this documented somewhere?

[hodologica]

To relax the PF youre supposed to sort of "drop" it. One IC doc/PT in an online Q&A suggested, as I recall, sitting down on the toilet and almost beginning urination, without actually doing it. I dont think youre supposed to do that often, as an exercise - just as an experiment to see what a relaxed PF is like.

It sounds like you probably have PFD. Have you looked into getting an evaluation for that? (You gotta find the right kind of specialized PT first, which can take a while, so you ought to start now.) Have you read the short book "A Headache in the Pelvis"?

as soon as I shift focus away from the muscle, its tends to get sucked back up.

Exactly. Thats why the Stanford/Wise-Anderson Protocol calls for frequent daily attention to the state of contracture of the PF. But if you have PFD, its virtually impossible to just start keeping the PF relaxed. Thats where the muscle-relaxant (and apparantly brain-retraining) action of focused relaxation (~=meditation) comes in. And PT to treat the trigger pts that make continued relaxation so hard. If you have significant PFD, you simply can't (in my experience) relax the PF nearly all the way in normal (non-meditative) consciousness. It will not happen by means of any exercise or any other means. That's why the Stanford/Wise-Anderson Protocol is such a blessing: theres no other known approach to PFD, except kegels and biofeedback, which are obviously inferior to the SP. (Also, re: kegels, many of the best chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome minds feel that they are harmful in many cases. Dont do em without reading such opinions, easily found on this board.)

Edit: I'm relying a bit much on my own experience in the last paragraph. I remember that Wise, Anderson in "A Headache..." say that some of their patients were able to get good results quickly apparently mostly by giving attention to their PFD throughout the day. They also say that this is for many people (such as me) not the case.

[cr]

Exactly. Now I realise how I've been all tense in the PF. I think at the same time I've been urinating with my PF not fully relaxed, slightly forcing urine out. Not good either, I suppose.

The last time I saw an uro he did "check" internally if I was tense/painful (I wasn't), but obviously he's no expert and examination was very brief. What I will do is get myself a copy of the book asap and have a look at that. I'll see if I make any progress with the help of the book and by trying to be more concious about my PF.

[hodologica]

To be a reliable detector of PFD, a clinician basically has to have experience diagnosing it. And, in my opinion, its reasonable to think that theyre likely to be better at determining such a diagnosis if theyre someone who has experience treating it by using internal PT methods on the tissue in question. Such a person is most often practicing as a PT. It takes some diplomatic questioning to make sure the person checking you is qualified (and it can be a real pain trying to locate a probably-qualified person in the 1st place). You might also want a rectal EMG, abnormal results on which are sufficient but not necessary to demonstrate PFD.

[hodologica (as guest)]

Sorry, I was a little hazed when I first replied on this thread (I'm now CPPS-asymptomatic but i've been going thru some kind of fatigue thing).

I didn't mean to imply that one shouldnt make some effort to keep the PF relaxed during the day. That's something every CPPSer that has or may have PFD should do, even if they are unable to relax the PF very well outside the skilled relaxation state (as is often the case).

I tried "pushing it down", by using the muscles around the anus and in the perineum used to force bowel movements as well as helping with my abdominal muscles. I try to achieve this with minimal muscle effort. I keep the muscle pushed down for a bit, and then let it come back up - making sure I don't pull/suck it up into its contracted state. Interstingly, as soon as I shift focus away from the muscle, its tends to get sucked back up.

Am I doing more harm than good? Is the "sucked up" state its normal state, or is it indeed contracted in this position and hence by pushing it down it becomes relaxed?

Neat, I think I actually know exactly what you mean, but I'm not sure of the answer to your question. I too sometimes felt I was pushing or "prying" a little bit with other muscles to get the PF down and relaxed. Like you, I felt a little odd about that and tried to minimize the effort involved. But beyond telling you my experience, I can't really comment; maybe one of the more knowledgable people can.