Paradoxical Relaxation - can you buy the tapes?

[scotsman]

I've read in AHIP that patients are given a thirty-lesson audio cassette instruction course for home use.

Does anyone have these (mp3), or can you buy these tapes on the net?

tia
Richard.

[jamo]

No you can not get the tapes. I e-mailed Dr Wise and he was not releasing the tapes because the relaxation has to be combined with PT. I was a bit dissapointed, after buying the book. The book for me was very informative/on the right track, yet witholding certain resources. I suppose they have a right to without being trained in PR/PT. But you can always buy the second edition!!! I won't let on.

[alprost]

No you can not get the tapes. I e-mailed Dr Wise and he was not releasing the tapes because the relaxation has to be combined with PT.

Riachard,

You are getting Physiotherapy from someone trained in myofascial release of the pelvic floor, so I'd imagine that you should be able to get the tapes, although you may need a letter of referral.

My experience of Dr Wise is that he was very approachable, so it might be worth making contact with him to see if you can get the tapes.

While you are here, has the Physio treatment helped at all?

[scotsman]

Hi Alan :)

I e-mailed Dr Wise and he replied the next day saying that he doesn't sell the tapes seperately. However, I could pay $700 which would be for the tapes and 7-8 telephone or email consultations. He'd also wanted my Physio to have a chat to his guys over there to ensure the myofascial release was being done 'properly'.

To quote Dr Wise

I want to explain why I set these conditions. As you may know from reading our book,
I suffered with pelvic pain for a very long time. I
tried many things that did not work but gave the appearance of working.
I have promised myself not to do this. I don't want to support half
measures which is what I believe using the tapes without instruction are
and what much internal physical therapy is. Half measures in my opinion
give no chance of a real recovery from this problem.

I have been asked hundreds of times to sell the taped Paradoxical
Relaxation course and with few exceptions, have not done so. I have
decided that if I am to err, I will err in the direction of not offering
anything instead of offering a half measure in which I have no
confidence.

Whilst I understand his viewpoint, I don't feel it's up to him to manage my risk for me. Given that I'm making such good progress with the physio work (plus doing a pile of relaxation techiques myself) - I don't think I'll be paying the $700 just now.

The physio with Bill Taylor has been fantastic. I've had four sessions now and I've had around a 60% decrease in my symptoms. Still have the wax and wan stuff but so much better (can't thank you enough Alan for the referral). Long way to go yet but I see the light!

I'm going to try and write up (and post) my experiences to date.

Regards
Richard.

[webslave]

Whilst I understand his viewpoint, I don't feel it's up to him to manage my risk for me.

I think that by refusing to sell or disseminate bits and pieces of the Stanford/Wise-Anderson Protocol, Wise and Anderson are managing their own risk, rather than yours.

[scotsman]

Yes, I do recognise that - especially given the perceived\actual litigious nature of the US market for those of us outside it.

[alprost]

I've had four sessions now and I've had around a 60% decrease in my symptoms.

Great News!

[scotsman]

Of course, another good reason for not selling the tapes by themselves is that they were probably recorded to only make sense/be useful with accompanied consultation sessions. A stand alone version would need more topping and tailing, etc.

[jamo]

In my opinion, I feel that the tapes could make a big difference in chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome sufferers lives and the tapes certainly would help them in training themselves in relaxation techniques. I actually went to a psychotherapist for relaxation techniques and it has helped. It should be the individuals choice to assess their own risks and have some access to the tapes without paying out $700. Is this about money and power over the chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome sufferers lives or do I have it all wrong, do they really care about us? Doesnt the book itself put Wise and Anderson at risk? What difference would the tapes make? I believe the book alone can put the sufferers under a false hope.

[webslave]

It should be the individuals choice to assess their own risks and have some access to the tapes without paying out $700. Is this about money and power over the chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome sufferers lives or do I have it all wrong, do they really care about us? Doesnt the book itself put Wise and Anderson at risk? What difference would the tapes make? I believe the book alone can put the sufferers under a false hope.

I put your question to Dr Wise. Here is his response:

I am responding to an email you sent me with a letter from a young man who was irate because I don't sell the 30 recorded lessons on cassette tape that we use in our relaxation protocol. As we have discussed, I don't sell the audio Paradoxical Relaxation course on a stand-alone basis. There are numerous relaxation tapes that can be bought from many different sources and people are free to buy them. I could sell the recorded lessons I use on a stand-alone basis. I've certainly had enough requests ... but choosing not to do this is neither a casual nor a self -serving decision on my part. I have a short answer and a long answer to explain why.

Here is the short answer.

I have no confidence that someone can learn to relax a painful pelvic floor from a relaxation tape without both instruction from someone who is competent in the method him or herself and without intrapelvic Myofascial/Trigger Point Release. I don't want to associate myself with making available a half measure that appears to offer something substantial but doesn't.

When I was symptomatic, I tried many remedies that all seemed reasonable but ultimately failed to help me. They left me hopeful at first and then disappointed and disheartened. A stand-alone relaxation tape, in my opinion, is a half measure. Half measures give little chance of offering real recovery from chronic pelvic pain syndromes. I have decided that if I am to err, I will err in the direction of not offering anything instead of offering a half measure in which I have no confidence.

Here is the long answer.

Learning to deeply relax the pelvic muscles in order to facilitate the healing of a sore and contracted pelvic floor from a relaxation tape that you buy is like learning to play a violin by listening to recorded instructions. In my experience, such an endeavor usually fails, the person gets discouraged and usually gives up. To learn the violin, you need instruction from someone who plays the violin and the more accomplished the player the better. You want to learn the violin from someone who plays it everyday, who is excited about it and whose expertise is obvious. Imagine learning the violin from someone who doesn't play it. The obstacles to learning to play the violin and learning to relax deeply are very similar --- except learning to deeply relax a painful pelvic floor is harder than playing the violin.

To learn to relax the pelvic floor, especially in the presence of pain, is an enigma and the method to do this is anti-intuitive. Our instinct is to tighten against pain and not to relax with it and yet I found that relaxing with the tension of certain kinds of pelvic pain can dissolve it. Learning to do this is a major event in someone's life because it is from this place that it can become possible to break the cycle of pain, anxiety and tension and allow the sore and irritated tissue in the pelvic floor to heal.

There may be some unusual individuals who can deeply relax on a consistent basis by simply using recorded instructions and I applaud them and wish them well. The reason I don't have any faith in this is that to relax a painful pelvic floor and maintain a relaxed pelvic floor over time, (and not everybody can learn how to do this) requires guidance and instruction with regard to many issues. Examples of the issues that must be addressed are: what to do with the pain during relaxation; how to not add tension the tension of 'trying' to relax tension; what to do when emotions arise that the tension in the pelvic floor is suppressing; how to accept the resistance to accepting the tension; what it means to rest while there is discomfort; what to do when a plateau is reached and tension doesn't reduce; what to do when symptoms abate during relaxation and then resume quickly afterward; how to relax in the office or on the bus --- as well as other issues. I have seen many patients distort what to me are clear instructions and become frustrated in their practice of relaxation. A relaxation tape usually addresses none of this and the successful resolution of these issues, in my experience makes the difference between success and failure.

Few professionals whom I have offered to train in teaching this method have been interested. The reason is that they were not motivated, like my pain motivated me, to learn to do the relaxation themselves. The best teachers of this method are turning out to be the patients I have trained who are doing well and use it on a daily basis.

I teach Paradoxical Relaxation in California where some motivated patients come to receive instruction. I periodically offer workshops for people in this method (I am doing one at the end of this month in New York). Sometimes, often under unusual circumstances and when appropriate, I do telephone or internet consultation in training people in this method. None of these options is ideal as they tend to be costly and inconvenient. Nevertheless they are options that someone can choose. There are some other venues for making the relaxation more widely available that we are considering in research that I am involved in and if they prove viable, I will share them with you in the future if you are interested.

My best to you,

David Wise, Ph.D.