Testicular and 'undercarriage' pain - newbie, what's wrong with me?

Male pelvic pain, prostatitis, IC
parakeet
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Testicular and 'undercarriage' pain - newbie, what's wrong with me?

Post by parakeet »

Help please. Hi, I'm new here (42-year-old male). I don't even know if I'm in the right place, but I'm in some discomfort. I discovered this forum (and the whole concept of UCPPS) this week via Reddit. Apologies in advance if I break rules, and for the length of my introduction.

I wonder if anyone experienced may care to join the dots, if any need to be joined.

Testes:

Multiple epididymal cysts (cysts on testes) - mostly one on the left. Multiple ultrasounds in eg. 10 years (most recently June 2021) found to be cysts, not tumours. (Epididymis transports sperm from testes).

Testicular discomfort - focused on the largest epididymal cyst. Occasional, when hot or sometimes post-ejaculation or post stimulation without ejaculation, sometimes for days thereafter.

'Undercarriage':

'Underneath' pain - Occasional bad feeling between sex organs and anus (unclear how to define it - is this the perineum?), sometimes a sort-of constipated feeling but not strictly and not really the same spot. Usually manifested at night. Sometimes would try to alleviate with a bowel movement - really painful (more so than the testicular discomfort) and slow to make happen. Mostly occurred, say, a decade ago - has been far less frequent since then...

Difficulty urinating - For the last year and a half, say, before bed I always feel like there is more urine to pass that is not coming out. I am often now taking a long time at the toilet, hoping to get it all out. (I drink maybe four cups of coffee in the morning, pint of water for lunch, pint or two of water at dinner 6pm).

Combination:

The thing that took me to my doctor earlier this year was a confluence of the above things...

Sometimes now, though not always, I am experiencing Testicular discomfort and 'Underneath' pain in tandem. One particular time this year, it was Difficulty urinating before bed that brought on the combination.

I get curious about how I could be experiencing both at the same time.

Prostate tests: Doctor's prostate exam, about a month ago, found no enlargement. PSA blood test found to be normal, thankfully. So, doctor not seemingly concerned about prostate cancer. Perhaps, then, he has also ruled out benign prostate hypertrophy (BPH), though I'm unsure.

Dr says the Epididymal cysts and Difficulty urinating are not causally linked - despite my experience of them sometimes now feeling linked.

So, what could account for this stuff?

Dr this week told me perhaps it's prostatitis. I can recognise many of the symptoms - this list refers directly to testicular pain, stop-start peeing etc; I have even had very infrequent lower-right back pain of late. He suggested it was a case of managing it, rather than intervening.

Asked if I should see a urologist, the doctor said the PSA and prostate exam etc don't suggest I need to. I had also done a urine test.

Hair:

I'm losing my head hair. Over the last two years, it's got worse, there is a balding patch at the top. The last couple of years have been stressful etc.

My research suggests dihydrotestosterone (DHT) causes hair cell inflammation, which miniaturises hairs, and that DHT is produced from the conversion of 10% of testosterone to DHT, which occurs in the testes and prostate: "As testosterone in the blood increases, more of it is also converted to dihydrotestosterone, resulting in higher levels of dihydrotestosterone as well."

Whilst I am losing my head hair, it feels like I am growing more body hair. I have now started nasal and ear trimming, which I never used to, and could be doing this weekly. My chest, pube, shoulder and arm hair seems more plentiful than before. Is this just accumulation/acceleration with age, or is something going on?

My research into hair loss treatments shows that medications have a dual effect acting on prostate issues. I'm talking about finasteride and saw palmetto, which either shrink the lining or reduce DHT production.

I talked to a hair loss consultant, and we agreed that I would not start these treatments whilst I followed the prostate-and-testicle pathway with my doctor. Indeed, maybe I would choose not to, regardless.

I can't work out - if we are saying I have a prostate-related issue like prostatitis, would taking these medications be good or bad for that? I think good, right?

Other:

I might also mention that I have life-long phimosis (inability to retract foreskin over glans). Examined as recently as last summer without concern, although the consultant didn't have X-ray vision. I assume this is not relevant. However, in my first explorations of the Prostatitis sub-reddit, I see some people talking about the risks of masturbation, edging etc - something I have done partly due to my condition.

This week:

I have had problems this week, and am in discomfort as I write this. On Friday, I woke at 3.30am with a pain episode, and made these notes:
Woke with undercarriage in horrible pain.

Left testicle absolutely LIT UP, feels sharper, focused on LEFT.

Behind that, pain. Rectum, perineum, pelvic area?

Feels linked.

Some gas to pass - feels like it might help. But inflames pain to do so.

Laying on right-hand side, only want left leg propped up.

Pain subsiding, go to toilet - a decent bladder movement. Pushing it would be uncomfortable, inflames left testicle.

Feels a bit better when it's out.

Before bed, I had again stayed at the toilet for a long time, several wees. Think I had pushed and felt discomfort. Was this the start of it?
Through Friday, I was in discomfort - I think it was mostly the "undercarriage".
Today, Saturday, it has been the testicle, uncomfortable all day. I've been taking Ibuprofen all day. It's not a dull ache, like I've been kicked, it's a bit sharper and more specific than that.

I have even been experiencing something at the top of my left leg, the same side as the testicular pain; some brief shooting discomforts.

Curious:

Testicle & prostate area?:

So, I'm curious. Does it sound like I have prostatitis, as the doctor suggested? Or BPH/something else within UCPPC? Could this account for the occasional 'underneath' pain? Could it account for flaring-up my epididymal cyst discomfort?

Do I happen to have both issues, maybe each provoking the other through general inflammation? Or something else?

It was days of combined discomfort that took me to the doctor in January. Then it abated, but now it's been flared again.

Prostate, testosterone, hair:

For the last couple of months, I've been wondering - is there any link between the undercarriage issues and my hair loss?

Today, I'm also wondering for the first time - is that link about cysts on/in my testes/sperm tube impacting DHT production? I must have that the wrong way around - surely, if DHT production was lowered, that would have the opposite effect and stimulate hair growth?

As it stands, the hair part is less important to me than the discomfort etc.

I guess I'm asking what, if any, the linkages may be between these things. Do I need to do any more thinking other than what the doctor told me this week?

Thanks for your patience through this long introductory message.
Age: 42 | Onset Age: 32 | Symptoms: Undercarriage pain, Testicular pain | Helped By: ?? | Worsened By: ?? | Other comments:
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Re: Testicular and 'undercarriage' pain - newbie, what's wrong with me?

Post by webslave »

  1. Perineal discomfort and difficult starting urination are classic hypertonic pelvic floor symptoms (IOW UCPPS)
  2. Cysts are a separate issue, although they may be acting as trigger for the hypertonic floor ('guarding' response)
  3. Hair loss is common in men of your age and unrelated to other symptoms; saw palmetto and finasteride are not useful treatments for UCPPS, and they can have their own negative side effects
  4. Phimosis unrelated to UCPPS, but overfapping and edging are definite triggers
  5. Trying to 'decode' UCPPS is a fool's errand and you'll end up deep down in a labyrinth of indecision and uncertainty. Start with what we know for sure: you have a hypertonic floor. Treat that and see what else clears up simultaneously.
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Re: Testicular and 'undercarriage' pain - newbie, what's wrong with me?

Post by parakeet »

Thanks for the reply, webslave. I've spent the weekend with my left testicle in almost permanent discomfort, popping ibuprofen and paracetamol, even with pain spasms in my upper left leg. It's only on ibuprofen lysine that it seems to have calmed down for the time being.

The pain behind seems to have abated for now (fingers crossed).

So hypertonic pelvic floor is also known as UCPPS?
Cysts are a separate issue, although they may be acting as trigger for the hypertonic floor ('guarding' response)
This is interesting. Where can I find out more about this? I'll search the forum, but so far have drawn a blank on the web for any linkage between these two things.
Age: 42 | Onset Age: 32 | Symptoms: Undercarriage pain, Testicular pain | Helped By: ?? | Worsened By: ?? | Other comments:
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Re: Testicular and 'undercarriage' pain - newbie, what's wrong with me?

Post by webslave »

  1. Hypertonic pelvic floor is what underlies most cases of UCPPS. You could have a hypertonic pelvic floor without having UCPPS, but you'd be in some discomfort similar to UCPPS.
  2. Any source of pain in the pelvis, for instance a fissure, could start a tensing of the pelvic floor muscles in response (the guarding response or reflex). Something similar happens in the abdomen (abdominal guarding)
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Re: Testicular and 'undercarriage' pain - newbie, what's wrong with me?

Post by parakeet »

I explained the symptoms today in a phone consultation with my doctor.
He confirmed what he had said last Wednesday, when I tacked this on to a separate issue - he suspects prostatitis, "acute" prostatitis...
"I've never heard of hypertonic pelvic floor in a man."
He has prescribed Levofloxacin 500mg, 1/day x 28 days.
Age: 42 | Onset Age: 32 | Symptoms: Undercarriage pain, Testicular pain | Helped By: ?? | Worsened By: ?? | Other comments:
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Just prescribed Levofloxacin for prostatitis

Post by parakeet »

The doctor today diagnosed acute prostatitis. He has prescribed Levofloxacin, which I'm waiting to pick up now.

* Multiple testicular cysts/scrotaliths, but esp one epididymal cyst, circa 13 years, benign by ultrasound.
* Infrequent "undercarriage" pain.
* These discomforts (infrequent) now presenting together.
* Last 18 months, difficulty emptying bladder at night, most nights.
* This Friday, woke in early hours with combined pain, persisted all day. Then undercarriage pain subsided...
* Testicular discomfort has persisted this week - constant painkiller use.
* A low-level pain in undercarriage, esp when sitting/pressure, not as sharp as Friday morning.

Rectal exam, May 2021 - prostate normal
PSA, June 2021 - 0.4 ug/L
Urine June 2021 - normal

Was informed of Levofloxacin side effect - muscle and tendon inflammation. A little concerned about some of the experiences on here with that drug, but hopeful. Fingers crossed, the pain may even subside before I start the course. Alpha blockers etc only if the antibiotic doesn't work.

Doctor doesn't think testicular cyst could be causing pain behind, but possible that prostatitis is causing referred pain to the testicle cyst.

Said he had never heard of "hypertonic pelvic floor" in a man.

Guess I'm not sure if the issue is prostatitis versus pelvic. I'm only learning about this stuff this week. (If prostate exam found prostate of normal size, is that consistent with prostatitis, which I understand to be an inflamed prostate but irregularly so? How about the fact that the night-time weeing issue is basically most nights?)

Bottom line - fingers crossed.

Thanks.
Age: 42 | Onset Age: 32 | Symptoms: Undercarriage pain, Testicular pain | Helped By: ?? | Worsened By: ?? | Other comments:
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Re: Just prescribed Levofloxacin for prostatitis

Post by OliverH »

I had acute prostatitis about 5 years ago. You will know if you have it. Prostate feels warm and boggy during DRE. Golf ball feeling in pelvis, constant need to urinate even though only a few drops come out. Sitting makes it worse. Very hard to find a comfortable position.
Age: 35 | Onset Age: 35 | Symptoms: pelvic pain, post void residual| Helped By: | Worsened By: | Other comments:
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Re: Testicular and 'undercarriage' pain - newbie, what's wrong with me?

Post by webslave »

Run, don't walk away from that idiot. On second thoughts, take his antibiotics, just to rule out his diagnosis, and if you are not cured, never see him again.
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Re: Testicular and 'undercarriage' pain - newbie, what's wrong with me?

Post by parakeet »

OliverH wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:13 pm I had acute prostatitis about 5 years ago. You will know if you have it. Prostate feels warm and boggy during DRE. Golf ball feeling in pelvis, constant need to urinate even though only a few drops come out. Sitting makes it worse. Very hard to find a comfortable position.
Hmm...
* Rectal exam - generally unpleasant, only my second, not familiar with them.
* "Golf ball" feeling in pelvis - mmm, don't know.
* Constant need to urinate - Do you mean, like, continual? I'd say I visit the toilet more frequently than I used to, but it doesn't feel like the tap is constantly open. Before bed, I feel there is more to wee out at the end, but unable to. Waiting a lot at the toilet to try to empty. Even so, I don't typically find myself waking in the middle of the night with a need to wee.
* Sitting makes it worse and uncomfortabel position - I've found this in the last couple of days. The very occasional pain I've had over the years, in the early hours (including last Friday), has been quite pronounced. Since then this week, it has been mostly testicular (at cyst). But yesterday/today the undercarriage sensation has returned, not pronounced, just a little uncomfortable.

I tick more of the symptoms boxes on this list - https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/prostatitis/ ...

* "Pain around penis (no), testicles (yes), anus (yes), lower abdomen (no) or lower back (yes) - pooing can be painful."
* "Pain when peeing (esp. at end), problems starting or stop-start..."
* "Not being able to pee..." (before bed)
* "Generally feeling unwell (yes), with aches (yes, inc limbs), (yes) pains and possibly a high temperature (no)."
* "Lower back pain (yes) and pain on ejaculation (actually, afterwards, and sometimes for days after)."

From this list (https://www.sixphysio.com/blog/hot-topi ... lvic-floor) ...
* Feeling like you have not fully emptied your bladder (yes)
* Taking a while for the stream to start (yes), or not having a strong stream (yes)
* Urgency (not necessarily) and increased frequency of urination (yes)
* Constipation (no, except at the infrequent horrible-pain episodes)
* Straining to pass urine (yes, occasionally, esp. At end of stream)
* Leaking urine or faeces, or the inability to control wind (no)
* Certain types of sexual dysfunction
Age: 42 | Onset Age: 32 | Symptoms: Undercarriage pain, Testicular pain | Helped By: ?? | Worsened By: ?? | Other comments:
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Re: Testicular and 'undercarriage' pain - newbie, what's wrong with me?

Post by parakeet »

webslave wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:03 pm Run, don't walk away from that idiot. On second thoughts, take his antibiotics, just to rule out his diagnosis, and if you are not cured, never see him again.
Is the issue that:
* (acute?) prostatitis is a bacterial infection (and neither my urine nor bloods has apparently flagged an infection, assuming that's how one would be discovered)...
whereas:
* "chronic pelvic pain syndrome"/"hypertonic pelvic floor" is overly tight PFMs, perhaps induced by unconscious contraction

From what I'm learning here from you and elsewhere online, does the conflation of terms divvy up like this:
- Acute prostatitis: swollen prostate from bacterial infection.
- Chronic prosatitis/UCPPS/hypertonic pelvic floor: pain in absence of infected prostate.
Or would you not actually put either of the prostatitises in the UCPPS bracket, that it's very much about the difference between the prostate specifically vs the PFMs specifically?

So, you're theory is that prescribing an anti-biotic (which are used to fight bacterial infections) will do nothing for it if it's not infected, and therefore I should be looking at other pathways (therapy etc?)?

At this point, I'm hoping that this week's episode proves to be exactly that - short-lived. When I had this combined testicle-and-underneath pain a few months ago, it was a week long. I have just passed that duration this time.
Maybe it resolves itself, maybe it does so from the Levofloxacin, if I take it (some of the stories on this forum about it are scaring me).
webslave wrote:Cysts are a separate issue, although they may be acting as trigger for the hypertonic floor ('guarding' response)
Doctor said unlikely to be that way around, but the prostatitis may be causing referred pain to the testicular cyst (?).

These are interesting:
https://www.foundationalconcepts.com/th ... ic-pain-2/
https://www.sixphysio.com/blog/hot-topi ... lvic-floor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acute_prostatitis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_p ... n_syndrome
Age: 42 | Onset Age: 32 | Symptoms: Undercarriage pain, Testicular pain | Helped By: ?? | Worsened By: ?? | Other comments: