Questioning Quercetin

[optimistic]

Webslave,

Thanks, yeah, I could stop the MMO thing, and have no symptoms. But that is the absolute last resort.

I'd like to know more about the figure you site that >70% of men with CPPS are helped by quercetin.

Can you point to success stories on this forum that corroborate that statistic? I'd think this forum would be swimming with quercetin success stories if those numbers were correct. I'd also think the literature would be rife with follow up studies. Those numbers far outweigh the effectiveness of wise-anderson (which, in their latest paper, was itself not very impressive).

If the only evidence is that one paper, and not backed up by a ton of anecdotal evidence on this forum, I have to say I am not sure it is a good idea to cite that statistic with such confidence.

This review paper http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3275320/ sums up the significance of Shoskes's paper, and it is not impressive. It rates Shoskes's paper as "very low quality evidence"

I am made even more suspicious by Shoskes's paper citing Supplier's products by name.

Sorry to be skeptical, but I guess that is what is great about this forum, we can all do our thinking on this hard issue together.

optimistic

[webslave]

Success stories with quercetin can be found with the search function. I lost count a long time ago of how many men praise it, but it's a lot of men. I can't say 70%, but it's plenty.

The review study that concluded that "we don't know if quercetin helps men with CPPS" was written by Schaeffer, an old warhorse uro in his seventies who has spent a large part of his career "treating" CPPS with antibiotics. I've clashed personally with this guy, so take my word for it. He's always had a special interest in urological infections, as he states in the video below. When you are armed with a hammer, problems tend to look like nails, and when you've been treating CPPS as an infection since the 1970s, why admit you were wrong?

When Google had "Knol" (an equivalent of wikipedia, but now defunct), Schaeffer wrote an article on CP/CPPS for Knol that did not even mention quercetin or trigger point therapy! But it did have a long section on infection and antibiotics. That's why I say the guy is a Luddite, old school, out of touch, a has-been.

The success rate for accredited quercetin (must be accredited!) was published in the peer reviewed literature. That's good evidence IMO (especially since it was published in the premier journal Urology with further confirmation in J. Urol. There are also other suggestive threads of evidence that tend to corroborate Shoskes' findings eg.:

these results indicate that quercetin produces dose-related anti-nociception in several models of chemical pain, through mechanisms that involve interaction with L-arginine-nitric oxide, serotonin, and GABAergic systems. These results confirm and extend other investigations on the analgesic effect of quercetin and its mechanisms of action

http://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18563352

... the flavonoid quercetin isolated from this plant appears to contribute for the antinociceptive property of the methanolic extract.

http://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16259764

The flavonoid ... quercetin [has] been described as cell-protecting agents because of [its] antioxidant, antinociceptive, and anti-inflammatory actions

http://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24152430

CONCLUSION: The present investigation elucidates neuroprotective effect of quercetin in alcohol induced neuropathy through modulation of membrane-bound inorganic phosphate enzyme and inhibition of release of oxido-inflammatory mediators, such as MDA, MPO and NO.

http://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22349996

These results suggest that quercetin exerts its analgesic effect by inhibiting pro-nociceptive cytokine production and the oxidative imbalance mediation of inflammatory pain.

http://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19899776

Chronic treatment with quercetin ... significantly attenuated the cold allodynia as well as hyperalgesia.

http://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15573524

Recent nutraceutical formulations containing the natural anti-inflammatory and mast cell inhibitory flavonoid quercetin hold promise since they can be used together with other treatment modalities [for fibromyalgia, which is often comorbid with CPPS]

http://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16569342

These preliminary results indicate an antinociceptive activity of quercetin, probably through modulation of opioidergic mechanism and point towards its potential to attenuate diabetic neuropathic pain

http://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14499317

Quercetin is a useful therapeutic agent for the treatment of colitis and gastric ulcer .... daily topical application of quercetin may be useful in accelerating the healing process of minor aphthous ulcers.

http://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20953559

Pilot clinical trials suggest that the flavonoid quercetin may be helpful [in treating interstitial cystitis, another form of CPPS].

http://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17284085

etc etc

A personal note: I found quercetin to be amazingly effective in quelling pain. Of course, YMMV.

Anyway, why all the angst over quercetin? Why not just get your free supply and try it out?

[webslave]

As for the 70%+ figure, that goes up if you target the patient population to a subset using a classification system like UPOINT:
http://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20363491

For Organ-specific, patients were treated with quercetin 500 mg bid10 (64 patients). They were recommended to use a form of quercetin without vitamin C (to avoid urinary acidification) that included bromelain and papain to improve absorption .... Overall, 84% of men had significant improvement (minimum 6-point drop in total CPSI) at a minimum of 6 months and median of almost 1 year, and 51% had a drop of 50% or more in symptoms.

[ramunaz]

Hi Webslave and other members,

Are there any any accredited quercetin product / any accredited quercetin product alternatives in Europe. Quercetin suppliers products shipping to Europe costs an extreme amount of money. Have you heard of any other trustworthy brands? Would appreciate your advise.

[Pootle1]

I guess that's a no to alternatives in Europe! I'd like to give Quercetin or any accredited quercetin product a go. Though there are plenty of sellers of quercetin I haven't seen anything as specific as these products.