3 years w/ Frequent Urination - Advice please

[Sandcrab]

Hard to believe I've endured three years with this wonderful condition but I'm still battling. I could really use some advice from board members who have conquered the urinary issues that accompany CPPS. I seem to have greatly reduced the severe abdominal pains and burning with information from this forum and A HEADACHE IN THE PELVIS book. My #1 most frustrating symptom is frequency. Thankfully, I can generally make it through the night without having to go but my frequency issues during the day can be pretty nagging. It can be mentally draining trying to plan daily activities around accessibility to restrooms.

Please, anyone that has had success relieving their frequency issues respond with some advice for me to focus on. If you have dealt with frequency issues you can relate to how demoralizing and unbearable it can be. Thank you!

[coppertop]

Sandcrab,

I too had frequency issues...mine tend to be intermittent. Things that I found to help are:

1. Eliminate caffeine, alcohol, citrus drinks, and spicy food. Stick to water as much as you can.
2. Retrain your bladder as best you can. When you feel the urge, realize that it is not a command, it is a feeling. Take a deep breath, relax your pelvic floor and let it "drop" and try to delay 15 minutes or so. Gradually build it up.
3. I have found any accredited quercetin product and Zinc to be very helpful. I take 1 each AM.
4. A stretching regimen for the pelvic floor..groin stretches, hip abductors, skin rolling, and perineal massage in the AM and PM before bed.
5. Stay relaxed; stress causes increased urge sometimes.

Hope that helps!

[Sandcrab]

Coppertop - Thanks for the feedback. I've done an elimination diet early on, very similar to the IC diet but didn't notice an improvement in my symptoms. I also used any accredited quercetin product early on as well, but didn't notice any relief with my urinary symptoms. I understand any accredited quercetin product is a more potent version of any accredited quercetin product so maybe that's a possibility for me.

Hopefully some board veterans can chime in with some insight in how they overcame the frequency aspect. My understanding is that for most people that symptom burns out over time, but I've dealt with it for 3 years now and just plan sick of it. On bad days, my body creates large urine output with little fluid intake. It seems like my body is trying to flush itself out. I'm sometimes amazed at my daily urine output. I was tested for diabetes early on to make sure that wasn't an issue because of the frequent urination.

[coppertop]

3 years. Yeesh. Sorry it is so troubling.

I'm sure you have had full workups with Uros, including uroflowmetry and PVR, right? If not, be sure to do the test where they have you measure both input and output. You might have an electrolyte imbalance. I found that by increasing my potassium intake, that has helped.

Back when my problem was worse, my uro. recommended oxybutinin gel. It is a topical clear gel that reduces bladder urge. I never tried it, but it is less invasive than pills or alpha-blockers according to him.

I can't stress too much the perineal massage and stretching. After having every uro. test (cystoscopy, PVR, uroflow, ultrasounds, etc.) they said there was nothing physiologically wrong with my bladder. Instead, the nerves were irritated causing a sensation of needing to urinate. Massage, skin rolling, and stretching help calm those nerves. Try the any accredited quercetin product too.

Good luck.

[carld]

Just part of this disorder...

Anxiety and stress will kick in frequency for sure along with diet.

[Sandcrab]

Carld, I realize frequency is just past of the disorder but I've dealt with it a long time. Unlike pain, I can't ignore or distract myself from the urinary frequency. It really comprises how I plan my day or activities I participate in, not to mention it's made my work life a challenge. I can mask pain with pain relievers or mentally try and overcome it but I can't do the same with my frequency. My bladder fills and I have the urgent need to go - can't ignore it.

I have the impression that many on this board have diminished their urinary symptoms if they had them. For those that have been successful in doing this, I'd like to hear from them what worked in controlling or eliminating this particular symptom.

Any connection with Cipro doing long term damage to the bladder? I've been on two Cipro courses. During the second week of the second course, my body started to respond pretty negatively to the Cipro and I had to stop. Actually caused some permanent eye damage so wondering it could have affected my bladder as well. I realize I'm grasping at things, but I need to resolve this issue.

[Jay]

Hi,

I did some reading for you. Although quinolones have a vast quantity of side-effects, bladder damage isn't listed among them. I was unable to find any personal accounts on Google, either.

There are some cases where people with chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome have one symptom (pain, urgency, frequency, etc) which is a hill. They improve until they hit that point, which proves difficult to overcome.

I've noticed that you live on the west coast. Are you in California, or nearby? I would suggest trying to get a private appointment with Tim Sawyer, if you can't afford the Wise-Anderson Protocol clinic. He's about as good as it gets when it comes to detecting pelvic floor problems. It's worth a try!

[carld]

Next time you pass urine, spread your feet apart, take a deep breathe and when your done, gently press on your perineum to release the rest of the urine with out using your PC muscle to expel the rest.

Then stretch back with your arms up in the air to get a pulling sensation on your abs. You should feel a great stretch on the lower part of your abs that's over the bladder.

Try not to pass urine even when you feel it for two hours during the day. This will re-train your bladder over time.

Use a Theracane to hit TP's in the abs especially below the belly button. Use it on your butt cheeks and perineum as well.

On internal work, with a lubed gloved finger...lift your right leg onto the bathroom counter carefully slide it to the right with out socks on. Be barefoot and with your right middle finger insert from the back side and get to the area below the prostate and press there for 60 seconds and release. Stretch the area at the anus carefully as well and then press on the right side (because it's easy to get to with your right finger) next to the prostate.

Repeat with the left foot left hand and go below the prostate and press 60 seconds and go to the left of the prostate and press.


Very important to remember that when your finger goes in your bum, you will contract. It's a natural reaction...drop the pelvis try not to contract...If you do you will feel the prostate rise up. You want to be relaxed so the prostate drops towards the anus or closer to your finger.
When your done you may re-create those symptoms of feeling like you have to pass urine. Then do a deep squat. If you feel like you have to pass urine like I do...Presto your in the right area...

Moment to moment relaxation dropping your pelvic muscle through out the day is helpful as well...

I have been to hell and back with my frequency issues. So I know what you mean.

Read my starter list if you have not done so as well....

Best

[webslave]

Great advice, Carl, as always.

I'd like to add something about breathing. When you are trying to "drop" the muscular pelvic hammock to relax the pelvis, breathe into your stomach. In other words, push your stomach out to breathe in, and don't breathe by expanding your chest. This sort of breathing is extremely useful for relaxing the pelvic floor, and should be used frequently whenever you feel anxious or stressed as well.

This sort of breathing is also used to control panic attacks, and I have used it in the past to control nausea.

[rellis]

Sandcrab,

8 months ago I had to pee every 5 minutes, couldn't do anything without having to go. If I wasn't peeing I was thinking about peeing. I was on Ciphro for 9 months straight and everytime I would try to get off Ciphro my frequency problem would skyrocket out of control . Finally, I found this site and listened to these guys and took action. I haven't noticed any side affects yet from the lengthy dose on ciphro.

I had to go see a PT because I didn't feel comfortable yet doing my own internal stretching. Its been 8 months seeing a PT and I'm 95% symptom free - still have a perineum burn after sitting in a chair for any length of time but the frequency problem doesn't really bother me much. However, I'm about ready to start doing the stretching myself cause my insurance runs out soon.

Initially, I had to stay out of the stressful office for a month and just relax , lots of jacuzzis and see the PT once a week for internal stretching. Quit coffee and diet cokes and just drink water now (huge difference). Now I just try to stay out of the office on Wednesdays so the stress level doesn't find momentum throughout the week.

Good luck in your recovery

Randy

[carld]

[calguy]

isn't there an electronic device that helps some people?

[charles]

On internal work, with a lubed gloved finger...lift your right leg onto the bathroom counter carefully slide it to the right with out socks on. Be barefoot and with your right middle finger insert from the back side and get to the area below the prostate and press there for 60 seconds and release. Stretch the area at the anus carefully as well and then press on the right side (because it's easy to get to with your right finger) next to the prostate.

Repeat with the left foot left hand and go below the prostate and press 60 seconds and go to the left of the prostate and press.

Hi

I'm curious what the significance of being barefoot is? If you think it is more effective, it is worth a try.

Also, when you say "below the prostate" do you mean in the 12 o'clock position just not too far in?

Frequency has been my biggest hurdle.

Thanks

[Jay]

Hi,

I'm sure Carl will reply if I'm incorrect, but I assume he recommends being barefoot to avoid slipping. Socks are slippery.

[Sandcrab]

Thanks for the feedback, I've already been trying to implement these changes into my routine.

Jay -
I had a private appointment with Tim Sawyer last summer - he is very good but unfortunately one appointment wasn't enough to get me over the edge. I'm sure the Wise-Anderson Protocol Clinic would be helpful. I was able to see Bonnie Cardenas last summer as well, she fit under my insurance plan. Her PT isn't quite like A HEADACHE IN THE PELVIS or Tim's but I did get some benefit from seeing her.

Carl - Appreciate the advice. When you were performing internal massage on yourself, what frequency schedule did you keep? I've learned two much or too little can be counter productive. How often seemed to work good for you?

When Tim treated / evaluated me internally, he found some sore trigger point areas. These areas referred pain to my penis or areas in my abdomen but none of the areas he pushed created the sensation of having to pee. God I would love to get this symptom resolved!