Neue01's Case

[neue01]

Why are mornings so rough with this condition... Is it just me? I seem to wake up each and every morning with my pelvic muscles bunched up. Each morning in the shower I have to internally loosen them all up again for a few minutes to get my symptoms to subside. I have to do this every single morning without fail. I thought I had released some major trigger points recently--a month back--but they seem to come back again in the mornings. This has been the case with these muscles all month currently. Granted they release now fairly quickly but still give me a lot of trouble. I also still get flare up and congestion in these muscles if I eat a forbidden food. When are they going to just calm down and move to a normal state? Is this the case for other people here? shouldn't muscles be loose in the morning after having largely rested most of the night?

[carld]

Some people grind their teeth while sleeping and perhaps maybe you clench your pelvic muscles while you sleep. Just a thought...

[webslave]

Neue01, if you are one of those with allergic component to your condition, it's possible that the urine residing in the bladder all night has set up an irritation in the bladder. During the day you keep the bladder largely empty, but at night we all accumulate urine. Urine contains chemicals derived from food and drink (urine sometimes smells of food one has eaten).

I suggest you pay careful attention to diet, perhaps trying an exclusion diet to help identify problem foods.

[Viking]

Neue01

You can also try a nice little meditation period right before going to bed. I know this helps a lot of people sleep better and more relaxed with a calmer mind. Even when we sleep, our subconcious mind is still active. So if you are experiencing a lot of stress in your life, you can be sure that this plays out in your mind when you sleep and can thus cause the pelvic muscle clenching.

[timberdoodle]

Your post reminds me of how crazy this condition is to pin down sometimes. I have the opposite problem that you describe. I look forward to ending my day and going to sleep, because I know that I will wake up with only very mild pain in the morning. For me, it increases throughout the day and is usually worse in the evening hours. I believe I am able to relax my pelvic muscles while I sleep but then they tense up throughout the day as I sit.

[neue01]

So I have been getting better over the last year. I really made some new strides as of a month ago and felt like I was finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel in regard to my symptoms. Recently I have been keeping up some maintenance on some trigger points in a new area. Releasing this area a month back was really a turning point for me. As of yesterday I think I flared the muscles up pretty bad while releasing the area. I had started to work one of the last trigger points in the area and I couldn't finish because my arm got sort of tired. I had flared the area up and then not released the muscle which has seemed to aggravate the entire region. This seemed to send everything into a spasm or flair. Now my symptoms are acting up again in a big way. I'm starting to get catastrophic in my thinking. My mind is going over all the possibilities and I keep thinking I've really done it this time. Does anybody have any words of advice? Has this happened to anyone?

[neue01]

So my flare has seemed to mellow somewhat but it has got me thinking about this condition. I thought I'd write down some of my thoughts and see what others think.

It has become apparent just how much of this is a muscle, nerve and diet issue. I've sort of broken this condition down into a couple major muscle areas being effected in most of us here. My feeling is that men seem to suffer with a couple different versions of this condition. The first is the classic pain, burning and frequency with lower urinary conditions. the second seems to be less pain but more upper urinary conditions including burning, dribbling, defecation issues and sexual libido issues. Many of these symptoms cross boundaries but the nature of the pain seems to be different as well as where it all emanates from. It's my feeling that the muscles being effected are different. I think the first group is affected by the lower rectal pelvic muscles that are easily accessible by a physical therapist or through personal internal massage. The second group is much higher up and not accessible by a physical therapist. This second group requires a tool and must be done by the individual.

I seem to fall into what I think is the second group. I had a few areas that needed therapy in the lower accessible areas but in the end it did less to relieve my major symptoms. I had to go up much higher on my own with a tool until I hit the mother load of tightness, pain and trigger points. This was an area that my physical therapist said was of no concern, as have other reputable sources like webslave on this forum. So take my experience for what it's worth but working this area massively stirs up my symptoms and also relives them if I manage to release tightness or any trigger points during a session. I have seen major effects on my urinary issues as well as progress in my libido and sexual issues. It's only been a month and I am still not symptom free but I have noticed a direct relationship between this area of muscles and it's effect on my condition.

The last thing to hit on is the issue of diet. I have noticed major effects on my muscles and tightness due to diet. It seems that for some reason these muscles are irritated by particular foods. It might be that they are already in a state of havoc and that food stirs up an allergic reaction inflaming and exacerbating the situation. If the muscles were healthy and in a normal state food would have little to no effect on these muscles. I can say that I have seen a direct relationship between diet and these already irritated muscle groups. For me gluten, large amounts of sugar and coffee seem to have the most severe effect at the moment.

I'd give any man on this forum, suffering with similar symptoms as I have been, the advice of exploring this region of muscles and see if you also have issues in this area. I'll keep people posted on details as I work this area out further to see how things progress. I hope my experience is informative for some men and opens a debate about the area of muscles in question. I really think there is something to these upper sphincter muscles being in a state of dysfunction in regard to this condition.

[graeme]

I would have to agree with you and I come into that second group as well with high deep triggers, the ones closer to the bladder sphincters which make make my symptoms (burning after urination, low libido etc ) but my physio was able to reach there but admitted I would need a tool due to length and angle. It all depends on your PT's hand size.

[neue01]

Good to hear. I have had to go about 8-9 inches in with a tool to release my most prominent muscle tightness. I have no idea what physical therapist could reach these areas with their fingers alone? It requires releasing the sphincters and progressing inch by inch. You can't force it at all. I'm not sure how a physical therapist would really be able to achieve this? I have fairly long fingers and they are only 4.5 inches total.

[Hacksquat]

I just ordered the Slender 7-tool, for better reach in self-administered TP-massage. How do I know it is muscle I hit if I go that deep?
I suppose the TP´s you refer to are on the anterior side, above the prostate?

I have quite short fingers, so I hope I can have some success with the Slender 7.

[neue01]

You will know if you are having issues with the muscles in this area. When I first used a tool and even slightly touched them they hurt so bad it brought tears to my eyes. They were tight and had formed a few hard ridges in my rectal walls. I just began slowly massaging these areas out until they began to release and loosen up over months. You have to just start doing it and you will see what I mean. It takes time and you have to listen to your body. It sounds all new age-ish but you will begin to sort it out.

[Hacksquat]

Ok! I got the Slender 7 yesterday . Now I have to decide if I should start doing this by myself, or wait a month till I have seen Bill Taylor and he can maybe advise me how to use it. Don't wanna cause any more injury in there...

[neue01]

congrats. Yeah it's a tough call. If you do try it on your own remember to treat it as though it's a massage. Don't jab or force it around, just go slow and sturdy. I'd say your safe just exploring the area first and even see if it refers any pain upon touch. If it does then you know this is a place you will need to release.

[neue01]

Hey people. I just wanted to check in and give an update on my situation these days. As some of you may know I've been working out some kinks in my rectal muscles (literally and figuratively) which seem to have been the major contributers to my condition. It took some time to find these muscles because my PT had me focused more on the accessible pelvic floor muscles just inside the rectum initially. I had some success working out tightness and a few trigger points in this region but as I stated it was not until I started working on the deeper rectal walls that I began to see real cause and effect.

I've been working on these muscles for the past 6 months or so now. Through this time period I have hit rock bottom and also achieved the best successes to date. I found this area had great impact of my issues especially libido and erectile function. I still go through phases currently that are directly related to the effects of physical therapy. Relaxation plays a role but does not seem to be as key as actual hands on muscle manipulation. When I started out I was in bad shape and the muscles involved were so painful even touching them brought tears to my eyes. Now they are much more normal and refer sensation more expected with the area. I go through two types of phases right now. I either release the muscles in a manner that places them in a normal state or I aggravate them and they tighten up some. The tightening up is much less then it ever was but it still interferes with proper function.

The problem these days is that when aggravated these muscles stay in the constricted state for weeks until I am able to fully release them again. It's been a battle back and forth between the two states for the last 2 months. For example this week I was doing the best I ever have and could totally see the light at the end of the tunnel. Erections were amazing sensation was the best it had ever been and arousal was totally present. As I continued to release the area I aggravated it once again and now I am in the can once again. This is when I get catastrophic in my thinking and berate myself for messing with the area when it was going so well. Working through these phases of aggravated tightness can be really trying. They are frustrating beyond belief and make me feel horrible. I have had to recognize that this is potentially all part of the healing process I guess. These muscles have been in a bad state for 8 years or so and working them out is going to take time and careful interaction. The flares are what get me and when they become self induced like this you can't help but get discouraged. I wish I could just relax and they would go away returning everything to this better state again. For some reason it requires actual PT for me to normalize again after I've flared the area. I wish this problem would just finally normalize. Do any of you guys experience similar situations?

[carld]

Very common to have two steps ahead and 3 steps back...It's just how it is. I think if anything, you should perhaps think that you have found a way to get better. The fact that you have days where you have been recovering well is a good sign So take heart in that and know that you must trudge the road...

Best, Carl...