Stubborn trigger points (Ramana's Case)

[ramana]

Also sometime (and thank God for that) - I cannot find any pelvic pain at all. And once I try finding it I can find a faint whiff of it which is probably psychological. On that count, paradoxical relaxation is actually increasing the pain because when I fee and relax the pelvic muscle the left side (where the pain is / was) appears heavy and after 30 minutes or so I start feeling pain. Has anyone ever encountered this earlier?

I have been asked to do cortisone injections for shoulder pain (cervical spondylolysis and bursitis). Can it affect pelvic pain?

[J Dimitrakov]

Update:

So reverse T3/ DHEA-S/ Pregnelone are high. Doc who ordered this says this shows body is in high stress response state.

Interesting. Pregnenolone was also found to be higher in our chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome patients as compared with controls further implicating the same pathway in the pathogenesis of CPPS.

Best of luck,
JD

[webslave]

I have been asked to do cortisone injections for shoulder pain (cervical spondylolysis and bursitis). Can it affect pelvic pain?

Not likely, Ramana.

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For our other readers, your blood markers out of normal range are:

Reverse T3 - Reverse Triiodothyronine (rT3)

A hormone produced by the thyroid gland. It plays an important role in the body's control of metabolism.

In normal thyroid function, T4 converts to T3 in the active form and reverse T3 (RT3) in an inactive form. The enzyme that is used to convert T4 to T3 is inhibited by stress, acute and chronic illness, fasting and the stress hormone cortisol. In times of stress, the body produces more T4 to RT3 to conserve energy for stress. A vicious cycle then occurs with more RT3 than T3 being produced

From http://www.project-aware.org/Resource/a ... roid.shtml

Reverse triiodothyronine (reverse T3, or rT3) is a molecule which is an isomer of triiodothyronine (T3). It is derived from thyroxine (T4) through the use of deiodinase. rT3, unlike T3, does not stimulate thyroid hormone receptors. However, rT3 nonetheless binds to these receptors, thereby blocking the action of T3. Under stress conditions, the adrenal glands produce excess amounts of cortisol. Cortisol inhibits the conversion of T4 to T3, thus shunting T4 conversion from T3 towards rT3. Consequently, there is a widespread shutdown in T3 binding across the body. This condition is termed Reverse T3 Dominance. It results in reduced body temperature, which slows the action of many enzymes, leading to a clinical syndrome, Multiple Enzyme Dysfunction, which produces the effects seen in hypothyroidism. Effects include: fatigue, headache, migraine, PMS, irritability, fluid retention, anxiety and panic.

From Wikipedia

Prolonged stress is the major cause of reverse T3 dominance. Unrelenting stress results in high levels of cortisol, the main hormone released by the adrenal glands in response to stress. Elevated cortisol inhibits conversion of T4 into T3, reducing active T3 levels. T4 is instead converted to reverse T3.

From http://www.womens-health-hrt.com/revers ... nance.html

DHEA-S - Dehydroepiandrosterone Sulfate.

Note - Ramana, your levels if DHEAs are normal, not ideal, but only slightly low.

Interestingly, men taking androstenedione supplements have developed chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome (DHEAs is converted to androstenedione). DHEAs opposes the action of cortisol and exerts a true anticortisol effect. DHEA-S plays a role in the stress response and may serve some protective function during times of stress ( see viewtopic.php?f=50&t=2798 )


Pregnenolone

Low pregnenolone levels can also be caused by stress. It gets converted to adrenal hormones that are needed during stress.

Hormone Response to Chronic Stress
Pregnenolone steal (AKA cortisol escape) is the body's hormone response to stress and is the preferential pathway when the body is in a state of chronic stress. (Refer to the “Steroidal Hormone Principal Pathways” diagram.) Pregnenolone, the precursor to all the steroidal hormones, is diverted to the stress hormones, cortisol and cortisone, when the body is under chronic stress. Pregnenolone is diverted from other down line hormones resulting in imbalances and deficiencies of all of the other steroidal hormones.

From http://www.biodia.com/resources/resourc ... lness.html

[webslave]

Update:

So reverse T3/ DHEA-S/ Pregnelone are high. Doc who ordered this says this shows body is in high stress response state.

Interesting. Pregnenolone was also found to be higher in our chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome patients as compared with controls further implicating the same pathway in the pathogenesis of CPPS.

If you look at the levels he quotes in his post, the Pregnenolone levels are actually very low, not high.

[J Dimitrakov]

Update:

So reverse T3/ DHEA-S/ Pregnelone are high. Doc who ordered this says this shows body is in high stress response state.

Interesting. Pregnenolone was also found to be higher in our chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome patients as compared with controls further implicating the same pathway in the pathogenesis of CPPS.

If you look at the levels he quotes in his post, the Pregnenolone levels are actually very low, not high.

That's a good point. Were those measures obtained during a flare-up or remission of symptoms, Ramana?

Best,
JD

[ramana]

Thanks webslave and Dr D for responding. The blood test was done on May 25 and I could barely make it to the test center because the shoulder and the pelvic pain hurt a lot. So it was done durng a flare up (In the past 1 year - I have never had remission of symptoms until now).

[ramana]

Most of the pain that I have is now coming from psoas and lower abs. I am looking for stretches specifically for psoas. I googled and found links such as these http://www.ehow.com/how_2067121_stretch ... uscle.html and also this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5fSNyKI5wE. But despite trying my best for the past 2 months, I have been unable to get trigger points of them. My pain has reduced from disappearance of other trigger points. Any inputs.
I am also doing stretching of the abs by lying on my back on the exercise ball. Also doing cobra. But not much success in the lower abs/psoas area. Looking for pointers. Thanks

[ramana]

Well some encouraging sign...after a year I could finally do the ejaculation thing. I did not experience any pain or flare up.

Though the pelvic trigger points are gone for a month (as far as I can see), the lower ab / psoas trigger points (which were never there) have flared up like hell (but not due to ejaculation). Pressing on them just creates more pain. I have used Theracane but have found hands to be better since the intestines have to be moved out of the way to reach psoas muscle.

My neck pain is becoming as mysterious as the pelvic pain. I have tried TMS etc and have racked my brain to determine if I am so stressed out that I still continue to have disabling pain (except for a few days of bliss when pelvic trigger points were dying and the lower abs starting up). The only probable answer is that the rage is in the unconscious and just keep on talking to the mind and continue to do relaxation.

Now that yoga does not cause any increase in pain, I am thinking of starting the stretches mentioned at http://www.freewebs.com/trydent78/ (thanks ryoscal).

Questions:

Serrapeptase has been offered as one of the solutions to contain chronic inflammation. That has never been discussed here. Any comments?
Should I try to do ejaculation consciously once in a while? I really have no inclination because getting out of pain is more important to me than anything else (well I still can't accept pain as a way of life ). But if it helps to unclog ducts (or anything else) I am willing to give a shot with some slow gentle effort without any squeezing

[webslave]

Serrapeptase has been offered as one of the solutions to contain chronic inflammation. That has never been discussed here. Any comments?

We did have someone claim he was cured by serrapeptase, and a lot of members bought it and tried it, and it made no difference. There were strong suspicions that the poster claiming a cure was actually involved with promoting serrapeptase, so I removed the thread.

Should I try to do ejaculation consciously once in a while? I really have no inclination because getting out of pain is more important to me than anything else (well I still can't accept pain as a way of life ). But if it helps to unclog ducts (or anything else) I am willing to give a shot with some slow gentle effort without any squeezing

Yes. Secretions should be moved through the gland.

[ramana]

I have started having a lot of pain in the abdomen. Left side. It was psoas first but now even the lower abs are very painful. I am back to being not able to sit for more than 10 minutes and not able to walk for more than 20 minutes. I have searched the forum to see if there are any fixes for trigger points in abs (apparently Botox cannot be used there and just doing trigger point works is not doing anything). Anyone got any ideas? Getting really desperate on this front. The only relief is they are external so I don't have to explain myself about rectum internals to people to explain my pain

[webslave]

Left side abdomen, sounds like it could be sigmoid colon. I wonder what sort of diet you eat, Ramana? Could you give a list of typical food you eat?

[ramana]

Thanks webslave
My diet is Indian vegetarian which means lentil soup + vegetable curries (of course minus the oil and spices that you get in Indian restaurants - the entries are very different from what is normally eaten in an average Indian home). But wheat breads are included in every alternate meal. I tested for wheat gluten and went off it for a couple of months. It just made me\y digestion and pain worse. I can type more in details later. Right now shoulder pain hurts but I wanted to point out a stop gap measure for rectal pain. Apply preparation H. I accidentally discovered it when I thought that I have a big hemorrhoid because it hurt a lot and in the mirror the skin appeared very red (internally). I am still puzzled by why it works. I was almost in tears about 2 hours ago due to the non stop pain. And now I am sitting here whining about shoulder pain (Which means rectal pain is much less). This may be useful for other people too. Did anyone try bupivacaine suppositories for rectal pain?

[webslave]

I would remove all spices from your diet. All of them. Even mild spices can cause problems. Try that for a few weeks. I know it will be hard.

[ramana]

I was going to post today that abdominal pain has disappeared in the past 2 days (and to think that I was writhing in pain 4 days ago). Well I did ejaculation to clear out the ducts and the damned abdominal pain is back. Popped in two Elavil 10 mg. Doing abdominal breathing and going for a nap.What else can I do? I am thinking of skipping any further such adventures.

[webslave]

Have you excluded all spices? Are you taking a benzo?