Panic Attacks during Paradoxical Relaxation

[HuckFinn]

I attended the Stanford program 3 1/2 years ago and credit its regimen with helping me reduce my chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome from total torture to intermittent nuisance. Nonetheless, I suspect that I might have made even greater progress were it not for the fact that I've been hit with occasional panic attacks that only occur when I'm doing my twice-daily paradoxical relaxation sessions, which I've performed religiously ever since I went to Sebastopol.

These panic attacks are truly frightening. I'd compare it to a combination of suffocation and claustrophobia. Sometimes I get a somewhat milder version that I can ride through. But often they literally make me jump out of bed in hopes of shaking off the panic. When I leap up and break out of the relaxation, the panic attack instantly dissipates.

This must sound crazy, I know, but trust me: I never had a panic attack in my life prior to the onset of CPPS, and these attacks only hit me when I'm doing my relaxations. They don't occur with every session. But I get hit by one about once a week or so, particularly when I'm dipping into an especially deep level of relaxation (and particularly if I start to nod off a little while doing a relaxation). Sometimes I'll go for a month or two without a panic attack, then get hit by two or three in the same week. I have no panic attacks at any other time except during these relaxation sessions.

I've consulted two different psychologists in the past three years about this matter, and the general thinking is that there's something in my psyche that equates total relaxation with danger. As I get better at relaxing, I reach new depths of relaxation that cause the panic attacks to flare up. Over time, they said, I'd likely acclimate to it. But it's been three years, and I'm still having them.

As if the panic attacks weren't scary enough, I'm convinced that these panic attacks have to some degree trained my mind and body not to relax as deeply as they might, for fear of setting off another attack.

Anyone else have this experience? Any useful strategies?

Huck Finn

[carld]

I have had anxiety and pannic disorder for more then 15 years, so I know what you are going through. This is what I would consider....

1. Look into neurofeedback. Do a google search to learn what it is etc. I think what may be going on here is your more in a beta state, alert and excited instead of the alpha state which is alert and relaxed.

2. look into l-theanine supplement to calm you. Do a search on that as well.

3. You have to treat the disorder because 1 accute attack is one thing, but having them every month is not normal. Seems like when you quiet the mind it rears it's ugly head. Do you have any form of ADHD This is connected to anxiety and pannic disorder I think.

4. Consider medication long term, I would go with Elavil...low dosage 10mg that's what I take along with all the cognative work I do. Now my pannic/anxiety disorder is under control. Or the newer class drugs like the SSRI's. Talk to your doctor about this. Believe me I know this awful feeling all to well.

[prisoner]

I have had some form of anxiety and panic since age 18. I had a friend at age 19 die due to a congenital heart defect. Being somewhat anxiety prone before, this made me feel uneasy about my own health and I associated my quick pulse with a heart problem (crazy I know). It was this type of thinking that would snowball into an attack.

I have had days where I was a hazard to myself between the anxiety and the OCD. It may sound like I was a total nutjob, but no one had any idea what was going on in my mind.

Over the years I have learned to recognize the onset of this type of thinking and stop it quickly. Never used any drugs, just my own will. I occasionally get anxiety, but it does not control me.

[HuckFinn]

Let me clarify that what I have is a full-bore panic attack, not anxiety. Those are two distinct conditions. I know what anxiety feels like, and I've had bouts of that in the past, but anxiety is a whole other animal from a panic attack. Anxiety feels awful and creepy, but I'm still maintaining a degree of rational thought. By contrast, a panic attack feels like you're dying right then and there, and there's no hope of rescue. It's absolutely horrifying. And unlike a bout of anxiety, the panic attack comes on so quick that there's no chance whatsoever to "talk myself down."

I've been on Elavil for about four months (10 milligrams a day), which I began taking specifically to help reduce pelvic-related pain. It has offset some of the nerve-related pelvic pain, and it also has pretty much eliminated any anxiety problems. But it has done nothing for the panic attacks.

Is neurofeedback any good specifically for panic attacks, vs. anxiety? I know it's expensive and involves week after week of "therapy." When I researched it about a year and a half ago, I found scant data to support its efficacy. In the past I tried EMDR, which has loads of research data behind it. In my case, EMDR didn't help.

[carld]

Huckfinn,

Neurofeedback has worked for me. I'm lucky because I live in Los Angeles where this is really catching on to treat child hood and adult ADHD and anxiety and panic attacks. If you can control your brain waves particularly the beta waves and keep them even, I think it will help. By doing the feedback by watching your brainwaves as you meditate and relax or play a video game and be focused.

I have had many panic attacks so I know the hell that it is. The out of no where pounding hearbeat, sweats, dizzyness, fear that I'm going to drop dead right there on the spot. Been there...I hope those days are long gone with all the work I put into keeping it under control.

[garyholc]

I used to suffer with panic attacks when I was younger. Luckily I had a good doctor who taught me self hypnosis and I also did some accupuncture sessions and eventually they faded away. They are scary as hell I agree, for me hypnosis and accupuncture seemed to help me out a lot. Obviously not the same for everyone but maybe worth looking into. . . .

[HuckFinn]

Carld,

May I ask a quick question about neurofeedback? My understanding is, you sit at a computer screen and learn to control your beta waves by mentally playing a video game of some sort. The process takes about two months of weekly or twice-weekly sessions, and the whole thing can cost $2,000 or $3,000. After a while of doing it, you develop the ability to control your beta waves on your own, without further need of the computer. Is my understanding correct?

You asked about ADHD. I definitely don't have ADHD and never have. And until three years ago, with the onset of CPPS, I never had a history of panic attacks.

Thanks for your suggestions.

Huck Finn

[carld]

You nailed it spot on. If you become distracted or stressed, the game stops playing and stops beeping. No reward if you will. It's very interesting to say the least and I think along with everything else, I have gained good control of my stress.

You can also do an alpha relaxation session. You listen to a gong and a soothing stream or brook can be heard which is alpha and a roaring ocean plays when you are in beta. You do this while laying down relaxing or fall asleep for 30 minutes.

As far as cost, no idea...My insurance through motion picture pays for it. I now do it once a month or once every 2 months.

[NoMoPain]

Huck,

Have you tried the Byron Katie work on this issue ?

Admittedly I am no expert here but I would think that there is a thought or series of thoughts that is causing your panic attacks.

Just because you are not clearly conscious of what these thoughts are does not mean they do not exist. In fact, Aarron Beck the prominent psychologist calls these thoughts "Automatic Thoughts" and they can be very quick and elusive.

In other words the automatic thought precedes the panic attack. I am sure that some form of cognitive therapy is the cure for you here, whether it be Byron Katie, Albert Ellis, Aarron Beck etc... There is plenty of empirical support for these methods as to the success of treatment for anxiety, depression, trauma, panic attacks etc....

Perhaps your mind is equating deep relaxation with dying so you can question that too. I am only speculating here but if you can identify the thought, then you can do the work on it by questioning it and then it looses its impact on you.

Take Care,
NoMoPain

[carld]

Or and this is just a thought because I'm no expert, just someone who has for many years experienced panic attacks.....


When Huckfin is relaxed and all the stuff of the day is not there to distract him, the underlying problems can come up when His mind is quieted. So there may be some issues that need to be addressed and worked out


Good luck and maybe try autogenic relaxation instead of paradoxical

[HuckFinn]

What's autogenic relaxation?

As far as cognitive therapy is concerned, that may be worth checking out at some point in the future. In fact, coincidentally, I just finished reading two books by Aaron Beck. He had some good points, but wow, what a tedious writer. I've done some of the Byron Katie work on my own, but not regarding panic attacks. So that's a possible option. Thanks for suggesting it.

About four months ago, I wrapped up three years of psychotherapy involving two different therapists, and while they weren't specifically cognitive therapists, they definitely gave my psyche a good going over. I'm glad I went through that therapy, because it helped in other ways. But not with the panic attacks. Who knows, perhaps there's some little cognitive glitch that still needs to be exorcised. While I may check into cognitive therapy at some point in the future, for now I'm a little burned out on psychotherapy, not to mention tapped out.

Huck

[GP2]

I suffered from panic attacks inmy late teens and early twenties. Yes they are truly horrifying (especially when on holiday in a foregin country)!

Consider that much of our daily lives are spent with us being in a constant state of stimulation (careful ), mind activity and business. Basically, we are very rarely present. Now, if you think about panic attacks they are often intense reaction to major internal conflicts, repressed anger and emotions, etc. When you meditate / practice formal relaxation you are connecting to you true self, your soul, whatever you want to call it. HuckFinn says he notices that these panic attacks happen when his meditation goes deeper. From what I've read in many books now (I can list them if people wish) this is actually a good sign. Meditation experiences for many long term meditators typically follow a pattern of a year or so learning to become present and enjoying the experience followed by the "storm following the calm." In the second year or so many long term tension hoding patterns are revealed in meditation, many previously repressed emotions rise to consciousness as they are no longer suppressed. Panic attacks are not unknown when this happens.

I for one detect great pain about my relationship with my mother and past romantic relationships that failed when I meditate. Just some thoughts that may help!

[HuckFinn]

GP2,

Your comments make a lot of sense. Yes, I think that's what's happening with me. I appreciate your insights. If you'd be so kind, could you provide me with the names of the meditation-related books you've found enlightening in this regard? Thanks.

Huck Finn

[GP2]

HuckFinn. Sure I will. I'll PM when I get some time this week

[scotsman]

What's autogenic relaxation?

Have a look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autogenic_training.

At the bottom of the page you can also download a 10 minute MP3 - which I use 2-3 times a day.

Richard.