Internal Therapy (Bill Taylor in the UK)

thebattler · Post by **thebattler** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:00 am

All

Right I have decided that the only thing left is to see a PT who does internal work. I am following the protocol and have been doing so for only a week (feels like a year!) having a warm bath every morning then followed by one hours of stretches. Not seen any improvement yet but I am confident happy days are ahead.

I live in Birmingham, England and have made an appointment to to see Bill Taylor in Edinburgh who I have been told does internal PT work. To be honest I am quite apprehensive about it but I will give anything a go to beat this.

I would welcome anybody's thoughts who has been to see Bill and can give me any news of any positive outcomes of having been to see him and had PT work done on them. I guess I am looking for some comfort that internal work may help and that Bill has helped any of you in the past?

I will keep you informed of my progress if that may help any of you?

Keep strong all of you because if they give us the tools we will finish the job.

The battler

Post by **webslave** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:45 am

Some people have positive reports about Bill, others say he completely missed some trigger points and that they only improved once they visited other therapists, who sometimes easily find the "hidden" points.

Bill is a registered user of this forum, so he can chime in here if he wishes.

Edinburgh94 · Post by **Edinburgh94** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:33 pm

I am having treatment with Bill and I would definitely recommend him. He is a great physio with an excellent understanding of CPPS. He is also very supportive towards his patients and appreciates how tough it is to have chronic pelvic pain.

I understand how daunting having the internal physio is and I think everyone is nervous when they first have it done (I know I was). It has to be done though and is one of the first steps to recovery. It will probably hurt but that is a great sign as it means you will have found trigger points or tight muscles. Good luck with your treatment in Edinburgh.

flump · Post by **flump** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:44 pm

i totally agree with ^....you couldn't ask for a nicer bloke to help you with this sh*tty condition....everytime I go there I feel down but bill always makes me see the positive side to this condition and I come out of there on a high

the man is under a lot of pressure doing what he can to help us all out,he`s not in it for the money he really genuinely wants to help people get better....

just remember bill will do his best to get you better but YOU have to be committed to the relaxation,stretching, moment to moment side of things its not all in the hands of bill you have to do your part as well...team effort!

not many people want to stick there hands up someone's ass, so total respect to the man for what he does

alprost · Post by **alprost** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:18 am

The question here is not how nice a guy Bill is!

The question is can he diagnose and treat trigger points and apply all aspects of treatment required to get people better.

The answer to these questions, in my experience and having spoken to several of his former patients, is a resounding NO. After being treated by Bill, and in the end, being in a much worse condition than before I went to him, I went over to the Stanford clinic to be treated. They found 15 trigger points.

Bill found only ONE of these in all of the time he treated me.

My girlfriend, with no formal training, was able to find several of the TP's Bill missed even before we went over to the Clinic. I would add that when I was over last year, another of Bill's former patients was over the week before me. Is seems Bill had missed the vast majority of this patient's trigger points also.

I understand why you guys have posted the comments you have - I would once have posted the same. This, to me, is part of the problem. There is no-one else in the UK treating CPPS, so patients will go to Bill regardless, and be extremely grateful to have found someone who understands their condition, and who is supportive and understanding as Bill undoubtedly is.

However, given that I have been treated at Stanford, and actually have something to compare his treatment to, I am in a uniquely qualified position to comment on it's effectiveness. When I think back to the treatment I received from Bill, and what I went through because of him, I would not recommend him to any chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome patient under any circumstances. You may get some improvement, but the chances are you will be left with undiagnosed trigger points (or worse as in my case )and will eventually give up or go down another path of treatment, feeling that you have crossed off trigger points as a possible cause of your symptoms. I have seen this time and time again, and know other former patients who have had a similar experience and are now planning a trip to the Stanford Clinic for treatment.

As I have stated before, Physio's who have not completed an extended period of training in trigger point therapy in general, and in pelvic floor trigger point therapy in particular, are part of the problem, not part of the solution. If Bill has done this over the last year, I'll happily stand corrected.

To quote David Wise:

Going to a different physical therapist who is trained, talented, and experienced can make a huge difference.

In my experience, truer words were never spoken.

Post by **webslave** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:23 pm

I have the added concern that Bill has not taken advantage of the opportunity to get training from the Stanford team. If he is reading this, I strongly urge him to obtain training from David's team in California.

It would be a great business investment, and tax deductible too!

Sleeper Service · Post by **Sleeper Service** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:41 pm

Al, what are your current symptoms and have they consistently improved since you've been to Stanford both times or did they wax and wane inbetween?

scotsman · Post by **scotsman** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:37 pm

Posts regarding Bill are always an emotive subject - as the guy really is the nicest of people.

I had over 50 sessions will Bill over 18 months and I'm still struggling with triggerpoints that he didn't find and that are now chronic.

However, I disagree with Alan, in that as long as you go with eyes open, and realise that Bill may not find all the triggerpoints, than it's worth seeing him. He did find many of my triggerpoints and the emotional support he gave me at that time made a huge difference.

I'd say the first 15 sessions with Bill were worth while - whilst the others didn't feel like I was making such big strides forward and that self treatment gave the same results.

I appreciate Alan's view on Bill, but it's not possible for everyone to fly out to Stanford as their first port of call - especially for those sufferers who aren't yet sure whether they have triggerpoints and still have to buy into the theory.

I think at least one trip to see Bill is worth the effort/cost and then plan on getting across to Stanford following that. I'm going to see Tim there myself next year (and I wish I saw him years ago - but I still don't regret seeing Bill - though I do regret sticking with him for as long).

Richard.

alprost · Post by **alprost** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:34 pm

Sleeper Service wrote:Al, what are your current symptoms and have they consistently improved since you've been to Stanford both times or did they wax and wane inbetween?

The first time I went over, I had an actual injury to my pelvis which had yet to be diagnosed, and this confused thnigs greatly, both during and after my first trip to Stanford. I then had all of this treated and ruled out on returning to the UK.

When I went over the second time I therefore knew it was likely only TP's which were causing my symptoms. The TP exam confirmed this, as most of the TP's located reproduced my ramaining symptoms, both pain and Urinary. I had an intensive treatment course, along with a detailed TP map, and had all of my questions answered re. self treatment.

Since then it has been a continual improvement. This has been in a three steps forwrd, one step back kind of way. It has been a slow process, but the overall trend has been one of definite continuing improvement for both urinary and pain symptoms. In terms of my 'before and after symptoms' relating to my second trip, these are as described in my signature, but still improving month by month.

After about six months, I reached a point where I felt TP's were no longer an issue, and really focussed on the relaxation side as described in this post: viewtopic.php?t=4817

Sleeper Service · Post by **Sleeper Service** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:02 pm

OK, thanks - that clarifies things.

Can you PM the costs involved? I think I'm about six months away from Stanford (need to see how the post op period goes as it can take a year or so to get full reults) but would appreciate a ballpark so I can start putting the pennies away.

I'm relaxing in the meantime. The interesting thing I've noticed so far is that doing kegels inevitably sends me into a horrible flare up for a day or two whereas dropping the pelvis always makes things a bit better.

scotsman · Post by **scotsman** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:04 pm

alprost wrote:...along with a detailed TP map

A detailed TP map is one of the things that Bill doesn't do and I felt treatment wasn't that planned/methodical because of it.

Richard.

alprost · Post by **alprost** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:40 am

Sleeper Service wrote: Can you PM the costs involved?

Will do.

Sleeper Service wrote: The interesting thing I've noticed so far is that doing kegels inevitably sends me into a horrible flare up for a day or two whereas dropping the pelvis always makes things a bit better.

I was exactly the same, and my pelvic floor had 6 trigger points in it at the time.