I have noticed that when I miss a bowel movement that I have complete relief of my LUTS symptoms and discomfort in my perineum. I'm very regular in my bowel movements, except sometimes because I take a low dosage of Elavil, 10 mg, my bowel movements can some times miss a day. Those days are the most normal for me. So.....
I think this proves my case that the muscles around the prostate and or my external sphincter muscle or the sphincter is my main culprit here. Can any one shed some light on what is possibly going on here with the remission of symptoms when I miss a bowel movement?
Regards, Carl...
I am not a medical doctor. Please fill out your signature (click here) ☼ ☼ My Starter List for new members
I encourage anxiety prone UCPPS people to consider L-Theanine Age, 44 onset age 37 Feb 2006 Freq. need to urinate. Sensation of having to urinate soon after going. Perineum discomfort/burning/tightness, pubic area discomfort @ times,poor urine stream, post urine dripping/spray. All symptoms have improved with my protocol. At the worst I give it a 1 to 2 on irritation and discomfort and frequency. Helps: Elavil 5mg for anxiety and mast cell protection, (will only take it as needed) self internal PT as needed, stretching, walking, stairmaster cardio workout and light weights, reducing stress, moment to moment relaxation, deep breathing relaxation and using a Theracane. Makes worse: sitting for long periods, stress, over focusing on it. Currently 95%-98% recovered. Stay positive, relaxed and control your anxiety.
I'm not going to shed much light, and may actually make it more mucky, but here have been my observations...
1) When I was really bad (first few months) taking a duece made my symptoms much worse, more spasms, pain in urinary tract
2) When in the middle of the road, it actually made me pee a little easier, but still caused irritatio and pain.
3) Now that I have a grasp on this crap and can get my muscles to a relaxed state deficating now seems to cause slight irritation and makes things worse again.
I really can't explain it, other than to say it makes those muscles work and soar muscles dont like to work, but its the necessity in order to stretch out, too. Kind of like a catch 22.
When things are really bad nothing helps, and this certainly won't. When things are in that middle road it sometimes helps sometimes doesnt, and when things are improving but still soar, using the muscles will cause soar feelings, but is also necessary. This is how I think about it.
I've had similar happenings with orgasm, from no help, to help, to causing some problems for loose but soar pelvic muscles.
I dont know......
Ss
Age:29 | Onset Age: 25.5 | Symptoms: Initially burning in prostate/perineum, burning in urethra, uncontrollable muscle contraction before urinating, dual ache in groin, left testicle pain, feeling of golf ball in rectum, soarness in rectum, and muscle spasms, now mainly very mild urinary tract inflammation, burning mildly after ejaculation, some days after physical activity involuntary mild muscle contraction before urinating | Helped By: .5 mg of Ativan, Aleve (naproxen), quercetin, alcohol in large quantities (vodka and soda), stretching, walking, internal massage the perineum area and levators. | Worsened By: sitting, weightraining, jogging, coffee, caffeine in general, alcohol bothered me at first, overdoing sex
This symptom is a known medical phenomenon, and I have it too. It is known that sensory input from the genitals or the rectum has a "reciprocal" relationship with input from the bladder -- when one turns on, the other turns off. You may have observed as well that you have to urinate less when you're sexually aroused.
Holding in a bowel movement causes the rectum to expand. This is called "rectal distension." It causes sensory signals from the rectum, to go to the sacral cord and interrupt (or "inhibit") messages from the bladder to the brain. When you have a BM, the distension--and hence the inhibitory signals--stop, and urgency/frequency goes up. More is contained in this paper:
This symptom seems to be more frequent in people with LUTS. You may additionally have noticed that although your frequency goes away when you have to go for a bowel movement, your urinary hesitancy goes up. This is consistent with the theory.
What does this mean for treatment? Some people have researched using TENS (transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation) to "simulate" the signals you have when your rectum is distended. This is done in Europe, but not as much in North America. I would be interested to see whether it would work.
For anyone who experiences this symptom: have you noticed that after defecating, you might have difficulty relaxing the pelvic floor?
Last edited by kevin on Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Started: Spring 2003; high urinary frequency and pain associated with bladder filling; urinary hesitancy; pubic/prostate/perineal discomfort; Helped by: trigger point therapy, Afrin nasal spray, Cymbalta, hydrocodone (small doses), distraction. Makes worse: sex.
I'm kind of in Scooby's boat, my bowels can have varying effects on my pain. Typically, missing a bowel movement is often a sign that I'm too tight and I can feel it as well, almost like being constipated. Yet I have noticed times when, after being moderately active for a few hours, I may have missed a bowel movement and then the following one will be pleasant and therefore provide some temporary relief. Basically, the healthier I eat and the more completely the bowels move, the better I feel.
Kevin - I do notice the muscles tighten up almost immediately afterward
Age:33 | Onset Age: 21 | Symptoms: Penile/rectal/testicular pain, urgency/frequency, constipation | Helped By: Relaxation, PT, eating healthy, just started some acupuncture-seems to be helping | Worsened By: stress/anxiety, poor diet
After all this time, I am not sure how to relax the pelvic floor. Is this taught in A Headache in the Pelvis?
Yes it is..well sort of. What I mean is this is one facet of recovery that would be greatly helped by a trip to Sebastopol. Myself like others cannot really do that for practical / financial reasons.
I struggle with it but what I have found is before a pain free day or few hours my pelivs kind of battles with itself. It feels like to stop myself clenching I am sort of bracing down there. But I know you shouldnt force relaxation - you should stay present with pain. When the forced bracing feeling goes I'm pain free - like I've won the pain or no pain battle.
Id be interested to hear what someone like Scooby who has been to California to see Dr Wisw says on this issue
P.S - constipation is bad news for my pain; thats my only real input on what has been said here.
Greg
Age: 29 | Onset Age: 26 | Symptoms: initially severe burning throughout pelvis - much better; muscles spasms all over region, back pain, chronic IBS (much better) | Helped By: Psychotherapy, SP stretches, swimming, accepting the condition (understanding there is treatment); stress/anxiety management; possibly basic quercetin; valerian root, vit B & calc & magn supplements; gluten avoidance & especially dealing with chronic constipation. | Worsened By: stress / anxiety, too much sex; repressed emotions; personality goodist traits. 80% better
I have had after BM the urge and need to similate the kegal sensation. So all of this plays into the ability to relax the pelvic muscles by just taking a deep breath and dropping the pelvic muscles after a BM.
I am not a medical doctor. Please fill out your signature (click here) ☼ ☼ My Starter List for new members
I encourage anxiety prone UCPPS people to consider L-Theanine Age, 44 onset age 37 Feb 2006 Freq. need to urinate. Sensation of having to urinate soon after going. Perineum discomfort/burning/tightness, pubic area discomfort @ times,poor urine stream, post urine dripping/spray. All symptoms have improved with my protocol. At the worst I give it a 1 to 2 on irritation and discomfort and frequency. Helps: Elavil 5mg for anxiety and mast cell protection, (will only take it as needed) self internal PT as needed, stretching, walking, stairmaster cardio workout and light weights, reducing stress, moment to moment relaxation, deep breathing relaxation and using a Theracane. Makes worse: sitting for long periods, stress, over focusing on it. Currently 95%-98% recovered. Stay positive, relaxed and control your anxiety.
I have often thought that if had did not go to the bathroom and have a bowel movement that a lot of my symptoms and problems would be better and the perinuem problem with tightness and discomft for sure would be better. And also the increase in the urge to pee and pee a lot after I have a bowel movement after some of the trips to the bathroom not always would be better. But as everyone knows this can not happen because if it did we would have more serious problems then the ones we have now lol.
I notice that when I go for a pee or a dump I often end up doing both! Apparently this is due to the mixed up receptors Kevin talks about and is a common post surgical complication for TURP/TUIP/BNI.
Age 56: Onset 2006 and bouts on and off since then. See posts for details.
After all this time, I am not sure how to relax the pelvic floor. Is this taught in A Headache in the Pelvis?
Yes it is..well sort of. What I mean is this is one facet of recovery that would be greatly helped by a trip to Sebastopol. Myself like others cannot really do that for practical / financial reasons.
I struggle with it but what I have found is before a pain free day or few hours my pelivs kind of battles with itself. It feels like to stop myself clenching I am sort of bracing down there. But I know you shouldnt force relaxation - you should stay present with pain. When the forced bracing feeling goes I'm pain free - like I've won the pain or no pain battle.
Id be interested to hear what someone like Scooby who has been to California to see Dr Wisw says on this issue
P.S - constipation is bad news for my pain; thats my only real input on what has been said here.
Greg
I did not discuss the bowel movement thing with Dr Wise. I too have this though, I sometimes piss while dumping and I know that isn't normal. Its unnerving isn't it? I just press on, what can you do?
Dr Wise was adament though that you should not force relaxation. I was pushing and using effort for awhile, now I just try to relax with it. the most I will do is a deep breath to try to expand the floor, but I no longer push etc.
Regards,
Ss
Age:29 | Onset Age: 25.5 | Symptoms: Initially burning in prostate/perineum, burning in urethra, uncontrollable muscle contraction before urinating, dual ache in groin, left testicle pain, feeling of golf ball in rectum, soarness in rectum, and muscle spasms, now mainly very mild urinary tract inflammation, burning mildly after ejaculation, some days after physical activity involuntary mild muscle contraction before urinating | Helped By: .5 mg of Ativan, Aleve (naproxen), quercetin, alcohol in large quantities (vodka and soda), stretching, walking, internal massage the perineum area and levators. | Worsened By: sitting, weightraining, jogging, coffee, caffeine in general, alcohol bothered me at first, overdoing sex
I think it is normal to some extent to have a BM and pass urine when you are relaxed about it. If you are relaxed and just let the BM happen and relax and just let the urine pass if you feel the urge. I think if the whole area is relaxed and this happens, it should not be a sign of some sort of dysfunction. Now if everytime you had to pass urine and then had to have a BM, then I would think that's not normal. I'm not a doctor.
Regards, Carl...
I am not a medical doctor. Please fill out your signature (click here) ☼ ☼ My Starter List for new members
I encourage anxiety prone UCPPS people to consider L-Theanine Age, 44 onset age 37 Feb 2006 Freq. need to urinate. Sensation of having to urinate soon after going. Perineum discomfort/burning/tightness, pubic area discomfort @ times,poor urine stream, post urine dripping/spray. All symptoms have improved with my protocol. At the worst I give it a 1 to 2 on irritation and discomfort and frequency. Helps: Elavil 5mg for anxiety and mast cell protection, (will only take it as needed) self internal PT as needed, stretching, walking, stairmaster cardio workout and light weights, reducing stress, moment to moment relaxation, deep breathing relaxation and using a Theracane. Makes worse: sitting for long periods, stress, over focusing on it. Currently 95%-98% recovered. Stay positive, relaxed and control your anxiety.
The onset of my primary symptom - frequency - began after a nasty hemorrhoid episode. I have also found that if I'm a little bit constipated and push, I can have a flair up.
Age: 55. | Onset Age: | Symptoms: Constant need to urinate, low energy, frequent pain. | Helped By: Tried the usual meds with no effect. Advile, baths, stretching help. Just started PT and SAMe | Worsened By:
After all this time, I am not sure how to relax the pelvic floor. Is this taught in A Headache in the Pelvis?
Yes it is..well sort of. What I mean is this is one facet of recovery that would be greatly helped by a trip to Sebastopol. Myself like others cannot really do that for practical / financial reasons.
I struggle with it but what I have found is before a pain free day or few hours my pelivs kind of battles with itself. It feels like to stop myself clenching I am sort of bracing down there. But I know you shouldnt force relaxation - you should stay present with pain. When the forced bracing feeling goes I'm pain free - like I've won the pain or no pain battle.
Id be interested to hear what someone like Scooby who has been to California to see Dr Wisw says on this issue
P.S - constipation is bad news for my pain; thats my only real input on what has been said here.
Greg
Thanks GP. I need to get the new edition of the book.
Just wanted to agree with something kpbos mentioned about healthy eating. I find that the more I include fruits and veggies in what I eat during the day, the more easily things move along. I generally only experience post-poop discomfort following a hard bowel movement, where there was some straining involved and the stool itself feels sharp, or hard when it passes on out. And those hard bowel movements really only happen when I've been a little lax with the fruit and vegetable intake.
Baby spinach is great, as are broccoli and cauliflower (which, by the way, is delicious when roasted with a little bit of olive oil and salt - you'll hardly recognize it) mushrooms, asparagus, zucchini, and the dreaded Brussels sprout (again, I'm willing to bet roasting it will wipe out long-held childhood fears of this one). Any kind of squash. Cantaloupe and honeydew are terrific, strawberries too. If you're currently not used to eating a lot of fruits and veggies, I'd go easy at first as the ones with significant amounts of fiber can make things pretty, well, windy.
So, this works well for me. Hope it might help a few others, too.
Age: 35. Age of diagnosis: 33. | Symptoms: dull pain in testicles, usually the left side, dull pain in perineum, occasional 'golf ball in the rectum' feeling, general tension/tightness in the whole pelvic region, pain/discomfort after ejaculation. Helped by: acupuncture (slightly); exercise; stretching. Worsened by: ejaculating; alcohol, somewhat; anxiety & stress
I'm not a doctor.
