Botox injections in the prostate

[benzo]

This week I had my 4th appointment with my PT who turns out to be tremendously skilled in TP release, especially in the internal work this guy knows the score. See also viewtopic.php?t=4304

Anyway, when my last flareup started and I did not visit my PT yet I made an appointment with a Urologist (Head of the Department) who specializes in chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome and apparently offers a whole treatment programme. Mind you, this is a very reputable hospital and I had to wait quite a while to get in. I thought about cancelling the appointment but my curiousity got the better of me so I went
I saw him on Friday and this guy's view on chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome is quite refreshing and the practices that they use are very similar to the SP. They work together with PTs and psychotherapists. What he said is basically the same thing that's being advocated here: that the initial pain caused by an infection or inflammation somehow gets 'stuck' in the brain. His approach is to soothe the mind so it can take focus off the pain and heal.
Now they do this via exercise, medication (Elavil,...) but what he also said was that they have some success with Botox injections in the prostate via the urethra. I know that some on this forum have reported success with Botox injections in the muscles surrounding the prostate but I have not come across anyone that had it injected directly into the prostate. A search on Google reveals that it has promising results in men with BPH but I have not found a lot on treatment in CPPS. Anyway I already had intraprostatic injections with antibiotics and that did absolutely nothing but worsen the pain. Not to mention that the urethral route seems quite painful, even under anaesthesia, because I can imagine the feeling afterwards won't be to too pleasant.
But as I said, he claims it's a way to give the prostate a break and to enable the body and brain to recover from the pain which may have a beneficial effect on the healing process.

Any thoughts on this?

[Rufus]

http://www.urmc.rochester.edu/smd/Rad/Pudendal.pdf

[benzo]

This a document on PNE and that controversial surgery they do. I don't think I would recommend that to anyone.
Also, there's one phrase about Botox injections but that's not what I'm referring to.

Read this

http://www.news-medical.net/?id=18092
http://www.healthfinder.gov/news/newsst ... cID=532867

That's the type of injections I'm talking about.

[scoobysnacks]

I know when you are in pain its easy to want to try all these different things. I went to the doc to discuss Botox into the external sphincter, he said no, that the benefits do not outweigh the negative.

Now, I'm so glad I didn't give it another thought. I went to the SP, and I'm getting better and better. I had a wonderful weekend, if this keeps up Ill write a large post on it, for now I dont want to jinx myself.

I personally would not ever shoot that poison into my prostate, we as a general whole do not suffer from BPH, and our prostate pain is usually referred from knotted muscles not actual problems inside the prostate. So any Botox shot in, if it worked, would just be masking the true problem, not solving it.

I would stay clear of that procedure, but thats just my take.

Regards,

Ss

[Rufus]

Benzo,

If you read the article,surgery is not advised at all, in fact the authors persuade people not to have the surgery as it has poor outcomes and the lack of peer reviewed journals pertaining to PNE.

There is a small portion in the article that deals with Botox injections and pain not LUTS or BPH symptoms.

Do I advise this type or therapy?
Well, I wouldn't volunteer for it but I felt it was necessary to contribute what I find for all to review.

Wish you well.

[scoobysnacks]

There was a young guy, about 19, at the SP, who had begun PNE injections, and they did absolutely nothing for him. He didn't finish treatment, but opted for the SP. He said the clinic administering it kept calling his family and stating how the third set of injections would solve the problem and that they didn't allow for full treatment -- said it was all money hungry bullshit.

Id stay clear of the whole PNE theory, unless you've had some major trauma that completely altered your pelvic structure such a major car accident, major surgeries, etc. There might be a time and place for that theory, but for the majority who have never experienced a traumatic event to alter their pelvic structure I think its all hogwash.

Regards,

Ss

[Rufus]

I did not submit that article in any way shape or form to support PNE and surgery.

There is a very small portion in the article that mentions Botox.

Recently a fellow sufferer and friend sent me the article where he cited that the article also mentions injecting Botox in the perinial muscle in an effort to stop the cycle of pain.

I didn't see that tid bit of info but thought the article was worth giving it the once over.

[carld]

... he also said was that they have some success with Botox injections in the prostate via the urethra. I know that some on this forum have reported success with Botox injections in the muscles surrounding the prostate but I have not come across anyone that had it injected directly into the prostate..... Any thoughts on this?

I agree with their theory on exercise and Elavil because these have been effective for myself. If neuropathic inflammation is a root cause of discomfort and pain for men with CP/CPPS, then Botox at best is a mask for the real issue that's causing the problem. If you are not dealing with the underlying stress and muscle tension in your pelvis, and sticking needles in your perineum for relief, that to me is a risky move. I'm sure for some Men this has been a real quality of life saver for them, but I can't imagine right now going for this type of treatment, when current theories are pointing to the SP/ live a relaxed life and take care of your self approach. The way I see it, if you have hypertension and your blood pressure is high, would you have a doctor stick a needle in your heart to calm things down? I know that's a drastic example, but after all, it's a muscle also.

[alprost]

Anyway, when my last flareup started and I did not visit my PT yet I made an appointment with a Urologist (Head of the Department)

I think this was a mistake.

[carld]

Alprost, I dig the Pink Floyd avatar "Have a cigar, you gonna go far"

[GS]

I have heard from Tim Sawyer of Stanford that some people that had Botox injections for prostatitis ended up incontinent and had to wear diapers for months. I would avoid it. Stick with the trigger point therapy.

[kevin]

Sidestepping the topic of Botox in the prostate, I'll mention that it's a good idea to search PubMed as well when doing research on these kinds of things. If you search for

Code: Select all

botulinum toxin prostate

on PubMed, and then click on the "review" tab (which gives you the review articles, which is what you're likely to be interested in), you'll get literature that is scientifically sound. Although the language is a bit tougher to understand, you don't get all the nonscientific junk you get on Google (remember that prostatitis--dot--org is the first hit on Google for "prostatitis").

[benzo]

All,

thanks for the replies! I really appreciate it.

kevin814, I have done the searth as you suggested and I think the article that is the most relevant is this one

There seems to be one common trait in these studies and that's the fact that they seem to target the urinary symptoms caused by BPH or chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome ,but no so much the pain surrounding it.
The majority of research has also been done in men with BPH but there's not a lot on prostatitis or CPPS.
I can understand that a spasming prostate or muscles surrounding it can cause frequency etc and that Botox can soothe the spasming and thus decrease these symptoms. As far as I see there's no research on the impact Botox has on pain. Also, when the Botox wears off the symptoms seem to return in most case so it's only a temporary fix.
So basically you'd have to return every 4 months or so which means having a device jammed up your urethra 3 times/year. I have always refused to undergo cystoscopies because I pee just fine.

Anyway, I know by now that sticking a needle in inflamed tissue is possibly not the best strategy to follow when seeking pain relief.
And I learned this the hard way with the intraprostatic injections.

[londoner]

Is is possible to have Botox in individual muscles? In other words, not the prostate?

I have a persistent weakness in one of my pelvic muscles - the iliacus - and am wondering if there is any way to calm this sore muscle down.

[Rufus]

Check out the "success story" section.
There's a guy who was cured after an injection.
I'd post the link but I spend enough time on the internet as it is...