Sensitization of Pelvic Nerve Afferents and Mast Cell Infiltration in the Urinary Bladder Following Chronic Colonic Irritation is Mediated by Neuropeptides
Chronic colonic irritation in the rat with TNBS sensitizes urinary bladder afferents to mechanical and chemical stimuli and induces bladder mastocytosis. A role of C-fiber afferents was further substantiated in this model of neurogenic cystitis as capsaicin pretreatment significantly ameliorated these effects.
Webslave wrote:
The "chronic irritation of the colon" that "releases neuropeptides from bladder afferent endings leading to receptor sensitization and neurogenic inflammation" is equivalent to the same irritation and stimulation caused to the nervous plexus in the pelvis caused by
chronic muscle spasm as a result of tensing.
An excerpt from an article about diabetes:
They discovered that when someone is suffering from T1D, the nociception nerve cells (called TRPV1+) that surround the islet cells are damaged. This results in the nerves not being able to produce enough neuropeptides to keep the immune system cells out of the pancreas and therefore keep the islet cells producing insulin.
By injecting of neuropeptide substance P, the team discovered that they could reverse islet cell inflammation in mice within a day and normalise the associated insulin resistance. These two effects reversed the effects of the disease without causing toxic immunosuppression.
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-If I am correct substance P and capsaicin are the same.
Would this substance have a similar effect on CP/CPPS as it does on diabetics?
Age:37 | Onset Age: 35 | Symptoms: pain in testicles that comes and goes that also switches sides-trying to find a pattern as to "why" this happens/Rectal Burn at the 6 O'clock position at my anus which tends to flare around the periphery of my anus typically after defication but no perineum pain-no "golf ball" pain. Pain in testicles worsens as I sit but not always...Pain is not always present but depresses me. Pain used to be at a very high level but has subsided in time to a low level but has not gone away. Pain used to flare after sex but not as much as before although it still like playing russian roulette./
/Lack of SleepHelped By: I haven't found anything that has helped to my knowledge. Tried many many sessions of PT, accupuncture and chiropractic care but still have not found steady relief that takes me back to a pre CPPS state.
Rufus wrote:-If I am correct substance P and capsaicin are the same. Would this substance have a similar effect on CP/CPPS as it does on diabetics?
No, Substance P is not the same as capsaicin. In fact capsaicin, the active component of chili peppers, reduces Substance P (a neurotransmitter and as a neuromodulator) by reducing the number of C-fibre nerves or causing these nerves to be more tolerant. So yes, capsaicin could counteract Substance P and lessen the pain transmitted from an area, but you cannot bath the entire pelvis in the stuff. Capsaicin is intensely irritating to mammalian tissues. Put some Tabasco sauce on your tongue and see.
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Would substance P play any part in CP/CPPS therapy?
Age:37 | Onset Age: 35 | Symptoms: pain in testicles that comes and goes that also switches sides-trying to find a pattern as to "why" this happens/Rectal Burn at the 6 O'clock position at my anus which tends to flare around the periphery of my anus typically after defication but no perineum pain-no "golf ball" pain. Pain in testicles worsens as I sit but not always...Pain is not always present but depresses me. Pain used to be at a very high level but has subsided in time to a low level but has not gone away. Pain used to flare after sex but not as much as before although it still like playing russian roulette./
/Lack of SleepHelped By: I haven't found anything that has helped to my knowledge. Tried many many sessions of PT, accupuncture and chiropractic care but still have not found steady relief that takes me back to a pre CPPS state.
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What is the relation between the new info on diabetes and substance p in relation to the nervous system and could it relate to CP/CPPS?
Age:37 | Onset Age: 35 | Symptoms: pain in testicles that comes and goes that also switches sides-trying to find a pattern as to "why" this happens/Rectal Burn at the 6 O'clock position at my anus which tends to flare around the periphery of my anus typically after defication but no perineum pain-no "golf ball" pain. Pain in testicles worsens as I sit but not always...Pain is not always present but depresses me. Pain used to be at a very high level but has subsided in time to a low level but has not gone away. Pain used to flare after sex but not as much as before although it still like playing russian roulette./
/Lack of SleepHelped By: I haven't found anything that has helped to my knowledge. Tried many many sessions of PT, accupuncture and chiropractic care but still have not found steady relief that takes me back to a pre CPPS state.
Location: Please give your location so we can help better
Postby webslave »
It's completely different.
Nerves in the pancreas release substance P to ensure that islet cells produce the right amount of insulin. Now if you use capsaicin to obliterate these nerves in a breed of mice genetically predestined to develop diabetes, the animals don't get diabetes.
The pancreatic nerves of diabetes-prone mice do not produce enough substance P. This causes islet cells to overproduce insulin, leading to insulin-resistance and eventually islet-cell death. If you give diabetic mice a top-up of substance P, by injecting some directly into the pancreas, the diabetes disappears overnight and the mice remain diabetes-free for weeks, and even months in some cases.
In CPPS, we need less substance P, not more.
Last edited by webslave on Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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This exact topic is currently receiving attention from a bunch of research groups. They're using instillation of capsaicin and resiniferatoxin (RTX) into the bladder to reduce hypersensitivity of pelvic afferents. Some studies have found a beneficial effect, some haven't (there were even some cases of it making some disorders worse; this might have been in the J Urol article below). Hopefully the new research will yield something conclusive; at the moment this is experimental therapy. Take a look at the following articles:
Szallasi A, Fowler CJ.
After a decade of intravesical vanilloid therapy: still more questions than answers.
Lancet Neurol. 2002 Jul;1(3):167-72. Review.
PMID: 12849485 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Ozawa H, Jung SY, Fraser MO, Rivas DA, Chancellor MB.
Intravesical capsaicin therapy: a review.
J Spinal Cord Med. 1999 Summer;22(2):114-8. Review. No abstract available.
PMID: 10826268 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Desensitization of Bladder Sensory Fibers by Intravesical Capsaicin has Long Lasting Clinical and Urodynamic Effects in Patients With Hyperactive or Hypersensitive Bladder Dysfunction
The Journal of Urology 157 (2), 585 (1997)
Started: Spring 2003; high urinary frequency and pain associated with bladder filling; urinary hesitancy; pubic/prostate/perineal discomfort; Helped by: trigger point therapy, Afrin nasal spray, Cymbalta, hydrocodone (small doses), distraction. Makes worse: sex.
I'm not adept at science but something was telling me that there might be a relation between the recent developements in diabetes and chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome regarding capiscin and substance P.
I appreciate your efforts in elucidating the matter.
Age:37 | Onset Age: 35 | Symptoms: pain in testicles that comes and goes that also switches sides-trying to find a pattern as to "why" this happens/Rectal Burn at the 6 O'clock position at my anus which tends to flare around the periphery of my anus typically after defication but no perineum pain-no "golf ball" pain. Pain in testicles worsens as I sit but not always...Pain is not always present but depresses me. Pain used to be at a very high level but has subsided in time to a low level but has not gone away. Pain used to flare after sex but not as much as before although it still like playing russian roulette./
/Lack of SleepHelped By: I haven't found anything that has helped to my knowledge. Tried many many sessions of PT, accupuncture and chiropractic care but still have not found steady relief that takes me back to a pre CPPS state.
I may be a dumb ass and I think what the article below just supports the pelvic floor theory as I understand it but there is a lot of science and terminology that I can't understand.
Could anyone in real lay terms explain this article to me and how it helps us and in what way in can pave the way for future treatments?
Age:37 | Onset Age: 35 | Symptoms: pain in testicles that comes and goes that also switches sides-trying to find a pattern as to "why" this happens/Rectal Burn at the 6 O'clock position at my anus which tends to flare around the periphery of my anus typically after defication but no perineum pain-no "golf ball" pain. Pain in testicles worsens as I sit but not always...Pain is not always present but depresses me. Pain used to be at a very high level but has subsided in time to a low level but has not gone away. Pain used to flare after sex but not as much as before although it still like playing russian roulette./
/Lack of SleepHelped By: I haven't found anything that has helped to my knowledge. Tried many many sessions of PT, accupuncture and chiropractic care but still have not found steady relief that takes me back to a pre CPPS state.
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How does this article help CP/CPPS sufferers?
How does it apply to future therapies?
It's great that this article confirms the theory behind the condition but what direction can these guys at U Pitt utilize this to help us?
Age:37 | Onset Age: 35 | Symptoms: pain in testicles that comes and goes that also switches sides-trying to find a pattern as to "why" this happens/Rectal Burn at the 6 O'clock position at my anus which tends to flare around the periphery of my anus typically after defication but no perineum pain-no "golf ball" pain. Pain in testicles worsens as I sit but not always...Pain is not always present but depresses me. Pain used to be at a very high level but has subsided in time to a low level but has not gone away. Pain used to flare after sex but not as much as before although it still like playing russian roulette./
/Lack of SleepHelped By: I haven't found anything that has helped to my knowledge. Tried many many sessions of PT, accupuncture and chiropractic care but still have not found steady relief that takes me back to a pre CPPS state.
Location: Please give your location so we can help better
Postby webslave »
Capsaicin treatment, even if it were a viable treatment option, would treat the symptoms and not the cause. It's interesting from an academic medicine POV but not worth thinking about if you are not scientifically/medically literate. IOW, forget about it for now.
The point to take away from the article is that everything we have speculated about nerves keeping the pelvic muscles in spasm also causing inflammation in your bladder/prostate/testes is correct.
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What about a mast cell degranulation blocking agent?
Age:37 | Onset Age: 35 | Symptoms: pain in testicles that comes and goes that also switches sides-trying to find a pattern as to "why" this happens/Rectal Burn at the 6 O'clock position at my anus which tends to flare around the periphery of my anus typically after defication but no perineum pain-no "golf ball" pain. Pain in testicles worsens as I sit but not always...Pain is not always present but depresses me. Pain used to be at a very high level but has subsided in time to a low level but has not gone away. Pain used to flare after sex but not as much as before although it still like playing russian roulette./
/Lack of SleepHelped By: I haven't found anything that has helped to my knowledge. Tried many many sessions of PT, accupuncture and chiropractic care but still have not found steady relief that takes me back to a pre CPPS state.
HAS THIS SITE HELPED YOU?
Say Thanks by donating. Keep the
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PayPal link at end of page ↓ Contact me at support at ucpps.men
