All in my head?

[moonrock]

It's been a while since I wrote on this board, so I think it is about time I share some of my experiences the last few months.

I have struggled a lot the last 9 years with pain in the pelvis area - frequent urination, pain after ejaculation etc. And big problems with the bowel for the last 6-7 years.
I've had about every test available done, tried a lot of different treatments, even went broke going to see dr. wise ( ), and heard about a dozen different doctors opinions to why I am having these problems. None have really helped me too much.

So, last October I started seeing a psychotherapist - and have done so twice a week since. I never saw the point in treating my condition this way previously since it was so obviously a physical disorder I had - but I had no choice but to try this as well.

My outlook on my illness had changed a lot since I started seeing the therapist, which is experienced with psycho-somatic disorders, and I now feel that the mental part is clearly the only thing to focus on in getting rid of my problems of physical nature. Of course I try to live healthily as well.

I feel better now, but I still have problems. This is a process which might go on for several years, but I am slowly getting into life again. I rarely have severe pain now, and I am much more loose in my muscles around the pelvis area- this after no PT or massage at all. It's simply just a result of becoming more at ease mentally - and thereby not tensing as much.

I think dr.wise is right in many ways, but that he goes about it the wrong way. There is no point in PT to release trigger points - because they go away naturally when the body calms down - and that happens as a result of putting your mind at ease.
Also putting your mind at ease ( for lack of a better expression) will result in your body relaxing. So endless hours of paradoxical relaxation is basically a waste of time - because the same relaxation is a natural thing that will happen thru the course of therapy, and disappear together with whatever fear, worries or anxiety you might be carrying around with you.
I think the caring nature of dr.wise, and meeting people with the same problems as yourself, is the most successful part of his clinic - and surely something that would help a lot of people to feel more at ease.

I still have really bad days - especially the bowel acts up, but I have no faith in dr.wise, or urologist after they have ruled out bacteria or other treatable conditions - which they often do.

As for myself, I am actually saying; it is all in my head!

comments?

[DavidinLA]

I think dr.wise is right in many ways, but that he goes about it the wrong way. There is no point in PT to release trigger points - because they go away naturally when the body calms down - and that happens as a result of putting your mind at ease.

Yes! Even though I think Dr. Wise is very dedicated to helping others and is on to some good points, it bothers me that he insists that the trigger-point release therapy is a must, and that relaxation alone won't help. Many people in this group have reported great improvement from relaxation and changes to healthier life-styles.

Also putting your mind at ease ( for lack of a better expression) will result in your body relaxing. So endless hours of paradoxical relaxation is basically a waste of time - because the same relaxation is a natural thing that will happen thru the course of therapy, and disappear together with whatever fear, worries or anxiety you might be carrying around with you.

Anything specific you are doing to help put your mind at ease?

I think the caring nature of dr.wise, and meeting people with the same problems as yourself, is the most successful part of his clinic - and surely something that would help a lot of people to feel more at ease.

Yes, especially when there is so little information about this condition available. With the exception of a handful of dedicated researchers, this condition is COMPLETELY IGNORED by the medical community (urologists really ought to be proud of themselves) and, for me, that has added to the psychological devestation of this condition. I hear all the time about research studies being done for CFS and fibromyalgia, but never CPPS. I often wonder if the condition really exits.

[HelpADude]

Well, the pain is not really in "your head". The pain is real but what's causing it is the question.

I'm new here but it's rare to see someone who didn't see much improvement with the Standford Protocol. Have you kept in touch with Dr. Wise since visiting the clinic?

So, you saying with the psychotherpy that you are seeing measurable improvement? If so, good for you. I'm trying to follow Dr. Sarno's protocol (TMS) for now. Unlike some people, I can't find that magic switch yet but I am getting better (I keep a journal with 'scores') even with the up and down of this condition.

[moonrock]

To: DavidinLA

Putting my mind at ease - going to psychotherapy has/ and is teaching me to think differently about myself and how I act. Changing patterns of thinking which might not have been healthy... Hard to explain, but seeing a psychotherapist has made me feel more comfertable with myself - I am getting an insight I never had before - and this had made me relax more body and soul - but it will take time till I am feeling 100% I guess.

Putting my mind at ease is maybe a bad expressing - but english is not my native language - so forgive me if it seems like a bit of a naive way of putting it

I am quite sure a lot of "new" illnesses - like fibro - are really psychological in some sense. When people are stressed they often show the same signs of illness - but for some it doesn't seem to go away even when they don't feel stressed. That is confusing, at least it has been for me. Everyone knows someone who gets backpain when they're stressed, or have to use the toilet a lot more, or puke, or get dizzy, or loose all their energy... for some these things just keep on even when you don't feel stressed- and I think this is where the subconcious needs to be worked on.. to much to say about this really...

To HalpADude:
Your are right, the pain is real, NO DOUBT! - but I meant to say the cause is in my head...
I didn't see much improvement at all, if any, after the standford protocol - except I finally understood that there were others with the same problems - which gave some kind of relief I guess. I kept in touch with dr.wise, e-mailed him a few times, but after a year I felt strongly that it wasn't the right treatment for me - and so I stopped everything.

I am seeing much greater improvement with psychotherapy - and I have never felt that I've had any problems or issues of psychological type which should cause this much pain, but I can be a bit anxious and maybe put a lid on my anger. My body is relaxing in a whole other way now. I also work out as much as possible, and have no problems with flare-ups due to this. I try to live normally, so I know that there can't be anything other that the therapy which has caused my change.

[LightningTree]

Let me put it this way:

I was visiting in-laws this past week. Every day I did my new psoas stretch. I was able to go to a baseball game and sit in a hard plastic seat for several hours with no side effects. I had no problems at all.

THe day before I was to leave, and then come back to work, I had some perieneum pain, so I stretched my psoas. After stretching for 2 minutes at a time, 3 times in a 3 hour period, I got rid of the symptoms. That evening, they came back again.

Once I returned home, I had no symptoms at all again.

I'd say its 50/50.

SOmetimes, stretching, PT and TP release are what you need to relieve left over physical symptoms. Other times, a nearly subconsious tension is going to be causing the muscles to wind up again, and won't stop until the stressor is relieved.

In my opinion, it really is that simple. So do both stress relief and PT/stretching what have you, all the time, non stop.

This message was written while sitting at my office desk, 1 month since I began stretching my psoas muscles using the pigeon pose.

[scotsman]

...I think dr.wise is right in many ways, but that he goes about it the wrong way. There is no point in PT to release trigger points - because they go away naturally when the body calms down - and that happens as a result of putting your mind at ease.
Also putting your mind at ease ( for lack of a better expression) will result in your body relaxing. So endless hours of paradoxical relaxation is basically a waste of time - because the same relaxation is a natural thing that will happen thru the course of therapy, and disappear together with whatever fear, worries or anxiety you might be carrying around with you.

I don't agree with the majority of the conclusions you make. Suggesting that doing relaxation work or physiotherepy is a waste of time is just wrong. Just because they didn't work for you (and I've no idea to what level you committed yourself to following those treatment options) doesn't mean they don't work for others.

I'm delighted that you're making such good progress and I've no doubt that psychotherpy may be an important component to recovery for some/many sufferers - and it's important that we hear as many success stories as we can so we can build a better picture as to what's out there. It's also good to demonstrate to other readers that just taking the stanford approach doesn't guarantee success.

For many this diease is self-limiting and can often resolve itself over time - but I'd rather do everything I can to reduce that recover time.

You say in your post that your symptoms are much better and your pelvis is much looser - but what if physiotherepy and relaxation could add to the huge strides you've made via the psychotherpy and get you to the finish post even quicker?

I've lost count of the amount of times on this board we've said that there is no silver bullet, that some treatments don't seem to work well for others, whilst others work wonders (e.g. for some, physiotherepy alone resolves it). It's all about finding the mix which works for you and it sounds like you have.

Richard.

[scotsman]

.....Even though I think Dr. Wise is very dedicated to helping others and is on to some good points, it bothers me that he insists that the trigger-point release therapy is a must, and that relaxation alone won't help. Many people in this group have reported great improvement from relaxation and changes to healthier life-styles.

The key part of your sentence is 'great improvement' - which is very different from complete resolution/remission.

Dr Wise has never said (from anything I've read) that relaxation alone won't help. Of course it helps, but for the majority of sufferers (based on what I've read and the three years I've been on this forum daily) just doing relaxation by itself doesn't take you to being symptoms free. For some it will but for the majority it doesn't.

Richard.

[moonrock]

Hi,

Scotsman - I'll try to respond. Relaxation will help no matter what you are suffering from, but it's not always a way to get better.
The TP therapy is good for many - I read the posts here too - but I find it pointless for me because I think the root or cause is psychological. Spending a lot of time working on the physical problems only distract from working with the root cause - which I believe for me and many - is psychological in some form.

I don't think this is a 100% psychological issue myself - but I do think it is a psycho-somatic issue for many, which can be treated psychologically.
But, we all have our own opinions - so if some other treatments help - that's good.

Lastly, I am not looking to get to the finish-post the quickest - at least not if it means interfering with the psychotherapy like you suggest ( moving focus to physical treatment).

Agree totally that everyone has to find their own way.



Espen.

[moonrock]

Let me put it this way:

I'd say its 50/50.

SOmetimes, stretching, PT and TP release are what you need to relieve left over physical symptoms. Other times, a nearly subconsious tension is going to be causing the muscles to wind up again, and won't stop until the stressor is relieved.

In my opinion, it really is that simple. So do both stress relief and PT/stretching what have you, all the time, non stop.

This message was written while sitting at my office desk, 1 month since I began stretching my psoas muscles using the pigeon pose.

I think the stressor( or whatever you may call it) is the problem always for me. Sometimes I can drink coffee and feel fine, other times I get it really bad. For me, I find ignoring the physical aspect is the best way to move forward, because working with the psychological aspects will ultimately desolve the physical problems I have. I guess I am ignoring the physical as much as possible because I know it won't do me any good to focus on it.

I would say the everyday problem for me is about 100% physical, but I think the cause is about 90% psychological for me - and 10% a prostatitis-infection I had at 17- which was ignored for a long time, and left me anxious and tense. Symptoms never got better after that, even though the infection went away.

I am writing this sitting down with a bit of tension around my bladder

But I am getting better!

[LightningTree]

I understand where you are coming from, and I by no means claim to have some kind of definitive answer. I've just had things happend that have swayed me back and forth until I gave up, and called it 50/50.

I'd say continue to work on whatever is working for you at the time. I need to focus a bit more on the psychological this month, for example, while I have been doing an excellent job on the physical side, I've been letting myself get tense about the upcoming war against Syria and Iran.

[moonrock]

I understand Lightning Tree.
And although I want to emphasize the psychological issues and subconscious here, I must admit I do things to help when pain is bad to - hot baths, running, valium or just laying down and relaxing.
But I don't want to do anything more active to treat it myself, because I am seeing changes in my body after starting psychotherapy. I think my idea is that if I get to feel "normal" and pain free thru psychotherapy, then I will know it is over - and be sure that the illness won't come back an other time.
That the psychotherapy had made most of the straining go away, and I don't feel the trigger points as often, is more than enough proof that this will work for me. I have also been pain free after ejaculation for about two months now, and that's uplifting after three years without! and I am 26!!!
But, everyone will find their own way.

Although, maybe the most important thing with therapy for me, is that even though I won't get any better ( which I will!), I am seeing that living with this shit can actually be an ok life

espen.

[LightningTree]

Hey moonrock,

I'm all for your approach 100% if it helping you.

I also return to Sarnot from time to time. One of the things I am doing lately is talking to my subconscious to help let out bad feelings. It works and keeps the pain down.

I have been thinking about is Sarnot's idea that the brain is using oxygen deprivation of tissues in the body to cause pain and distract the conscious from subconscious rage.

I think one could combat this trend by taking time to breathe deeply. Take a conscious effort to spend more time during the day breathing deeply for extended periods of time.