TMS Please look into it!!!!!!!

[kjarvis]

Hello my name is Kevin Jarvis. I am a police officer in Ontario Canada who has suffered pelvic pain and I am now 99% cured from CPP and it is through a natural process. Read Dr. John Sarno's book the Mind Body Prescription. There are a lot of similarities between this book and and "A Headache in the Pelvis". I had testicle pain slow urination, pain while sitting and pain in the rectum and surrounding area. I will not go on and on. I just recommend this book because I was able to heal through the information offered in this book by Dr. Sarno. Unfortunately anxiety has taken the place of the pelvic pain but I am well on the way of defeating that as well. Contact me if you have any questions at [email protected].

Kevin.

[conradin]

Interesting. Can you describe the book more?

[kjarvis]

The book is about how daily pressures, unconcious anger and anxiety from whole lifetime remain suppressed and the effects of what happens when these unacceptable emotions threaten to surface the body creates distractions which are harmless but can scare the shit out of you because how painful they can be. This may be difficult to understand but I was Diagnosed with Chronic Non Bac PP and the Doctors could not find anything wrong with me, which is not surprising since there really is nothing wrong with me there is just a natural proccess in the brain occurring that can be CURED THROUGH KNOWLEDGE. As simple as this sounds give it a try and there are thousands of people who have recovered from various forms of chronic pain through understanding what was happening to them and therfore uncovering the minds strategy and losing the pain or condition that many have been told, "you just have to learn to live with it," The mind is more complex and yet more simplex than we could ever imagine. Anyway take heart I believe NON Bac PP is tension caused and knowledge is the cure and if you are serious about being open minded and finding a solution than you have to give Dr. Sarno more than a second thought. I am a police officer and very sceptical by nature but I cannot dispute that I had pelvic pain and after reading Sarno's book it immediatly started to subside which is what happens to a lot of people who read AHIP I do not find this a coincidence I find this evidence that our minds play a more significant role than muscles, tendons and nerves that we have all been told are the source of the problem. Read it and get back to me.

[rider fan]

There is a post in the success stories section about Dr. Sarno and it's very interesting. I agree that this and AHIP are complimentary, especially regrading tension and relaxation. Thanks for taking the time to post your encouraging story.

[kjarvis]

Just wanted to let you know that Dr. Sarno does mention prostatitis as a TMS equivalent in his book it does not just deal with back pain. In fact he is just as a mazed as the rest of us at our Doctors for the lack of findings in prostatitis cases and there willingness to keep prescribing meds anti bio's etc and there unwillingness to acknowledge a psychological origin. This does not make us weak, just susceptible and quite normal. No Doc would argue that headaches, ulcers, and other conditions are the result of stress and unprocessed emotions, but why such as stretch to other conditions which seem unexplainable in any other terms? Good luck and contact me if you have any questions.

Kevin

[DavidinLA]

I've ordered the book from Amazon and plan to read it during my upcoming vacation.

I'm not sure what Dr. Sarno means by "suppressed anger", but I do know that I have had episodes of severe back and neck which resulted from moments of intense anger. I strongly suspect my chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome is related to this type of tension.

[alprost]

I agree that approaches which focus on the mental side of health and healing are absolutely essential in recovering from conditions such as CPPS.

The only problem I have with some of these is that they focus solely on this aspect. The muscle tension in chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome is obviously not the same as 'muscle spasm', and the pain referring trigger points of chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome need direct physical intervention for them to heal, and I strongly disagree that these can be 'cured through knowledge' alone.

Saying that our 'minds are more important than our muscles and nerves etc' is inaccurate. The 2 are inextricably linked.

I have read some of Dr Sarno's book and was very impressed with much of it. However, he seemed somewhat dismissive of trigger points and appeared to confuse them with the 'tender points' of fibromyalgia. It was a while back when I read this, so I'm happy to be corrected by someone who has a copy.

Also, stress and anxiety is only one of many possible initiating factors for the trigger points which typicaly cause the pain of chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome (although I believe it is the most common). The bottom line is you need to deal with the original cause and treat the resulting trigger points. If the original cause is stress/anxiety/negative thinking, then the approach advocated by Dr Sarno is excellent, but is only appropriate for that part of the problem.

[conradin]

I have read some of Dr Sarno's book and was very impressed with much of it. However, he seemed somewhat dismissive of trigger points and appeared to confuse them with the 'tender points' of fibromyalgia. It was a while back when I read this, so I'm happy to be corrected by someone who has a copy.

I have no idea that the tender points and trigger points are different...anyone care to explain?

[Ginty]

Hi Kevin,

I own this book but have not read it for a while. However I do absolutely support the premise that this all has its origin in the psyche.

However while I think I did get some short term benefit from reading the book I was somewhat put off by the fact that the book more than once mentions that really you need some one on one consultations to nail it.

So can you comment on what exactly you did to get better, did you simply just gain the knowledge from the book and accept it? Or did you make conscious changes to your mental patterns / thoughts?

Thanks,
Stephen

[kjarvis]

Everyone I do believe that the trigger points are real and painful, however I do believe through personal experience how fast they can be eliminated by breaking the strategy of the brain without trigger point therapy or anything else physical. This worked for me and I was about to travel 4 hours once a week to see a therapist familiar with the Stanford Prot. TMS as stated by Sarno is a harmless but painful condition in which the brain signals the muscles, tendons and nerves to react and create a distraction so we will not focus on what the BRAIN BELIEVES are unacceptable emotions. This is a question of what came first the chicken or the egg, or in this our case the pelvic pain and all the symptoms and causes or the thoughts or barred emotions (stress). Pelvic muscles becoming tense by the cause of stress in our lives is supported by Dr. Wise in AHIP. I am not saying that the Stanford Prot is not effective because clearly it is, however I wonder if this is still treating the symptom and not the root case. I had all of the painful symptoms and missed quite a bit of work due to my pelvis pain, and after reading Sarno's book and really accepting the diagnosis I was able to rid myself of this condition within about a week and a half. TMS is a defence by the brain to keep suppressed emotions from coming to consciousness and I have discovered just this when as Dr. Sarno states I started thinking psychologically and physically. We are all in this together I and I am just offering what works for me and whatever merit that may have to others. Remember that TMS does not assume that we are mentally unstable. Stephen I did not do one on one consultations and yes I still work on accepting the diagnosis some days when I feel a twinge, and I mean a small twinge of symptom, I start to think about what I am tense about and ironically the twinge fades away. A funny thing is that now that the pelvic pain is 99% better I face some anxiety and nervousness which again is another TMS distraction. I am well on my way to beating that as well and enjoy watching and feeling the brain loose its grip on me as its natural, but out of place strategy falls apart. I have discovered some techniques which are very helpful with pelvic pain and even more so with anxiety. Check out (EFT) Emotional Freedom technique, it is amazing and REALLY works. I have read that a lot of people probably leave this forum when they are cured of this condition and I almost did that until I remembered the desperation and fear I felt when I was in the midst of this condition, and now I just want to let people know that you can and WILL be free from pain again. Weather you become free from Sarno, Stanford, or some other method we will and should continue to put out there what works and what has not. I believe western medicine has failed us in many respects, because treating the body without consideration for the mind and spirit is bound to fail. Anyone is welcome to call me on my cell after 20:00 hours Canada time if you have any questions. There is just to much to try to convey through this post, however I hope it will be helpful or at least offer hope with no false pretence.
519-564-7494
Kevin.

[conradin]

Check out (EFT) Emotional Freedom technique, it is amazing and REALLY works. I have read that a lot of people probably leave this forum when they are cured of this condition and I almost did that until I remembered the desparation and fear I felt when I was in the midst of this condition, and now I just want to let people know that you can and WILL be free from pain again. Weather you become free from Sarno, Stanford, or someother meathod we will and should continue to put out there what works and what has not. I beleive western medicine has failed us in many respects, because treating the body without consideration for the mind and spirit is bound to fail. Anyone is welcome to call me on my cell after 20:00 hours Canada time if you have any questions. There is just to much to try to conve through this post, however I hope it will be helpful or at least offer hope with no false pretense.

Kevin.

I was taught EFT and it is a very useful technique, although I am not sure if it can help pain. But for relieveingt anxiety and mild depression it is an excellent bandage method.

[kjarvis]

Does anyone ever wonder why so many people get relief of their symptoms after reading AHIP or Sarno's book. That says to me that once the mind knows that you understand what is going on it gives up the ghost. The pain returns when we fall back into the trap. Trigger points and spasms are caused by some of the same proccesses which are lack of blood flow to certain muscles, tendons and nerves which cause insufficient oxygen suppply, which causes pain (sometimes severe). This is why I beleive as Sarno states so many of us get releif from hot baths, relaxation or massage (the blood flow is returned temporarily to normal and wazah!!!!! NO PAIN or far less pain. Dont take my word for it give TMS and SARNO a search on the net, read the book, call him or write to him.

Kevin.

[Viking]

To answer the question about the difference between tender points and trigger points, it is my understanding that tender points can be extremely painful by the slightest touch, but they don`t refer pain to a remote site. Trigger points refer pain to another site and are generally not as painful as the tender points just by simple touch. You have to use more force and dig into them to get the pain referral.

[Pelican]

I have lots of tender points but I dont think I've found lots of triggerpoints except maybe one or two. The tenderpoints I have are mostly in the buttocks and back area.

[alprost]

Everyone I do believe that the trigger points are real and painful, however I do believe through personal experience how fast they can be eliminated by breaking the strategy of the brain without trigger point therapy or anything else physical.

No, they can't - there is not a shred of scientific evidence to support this statement! What you need to understand is that anxiety fuels the flame of trigger points and makes them much more symptomatic.

You really need to take the time to download and study these videos on Dr Wise's website:
http://www.pelvicpainhelp.com/videos.html

TMS as stated by Sarno is a harmless but painful condition in which the brain signals the muscles, tendons and nerves to react and create a distraction so we will not focus on what the BRAIN BELIEVES are unacceptable emotions. This is a question of what came first the chicken or the egg, or in this our case the pelvic pain and all the symptoms and causes or the thoughts or barred emotions (stress). Pelvic muscles becoming tense by the cause of stress in our lives is supported by Dr. Wise in AHIP. I am not saying that the Stanford Prot is not effective because clearly it is, however I wonder if this is still treating the symptom and not the root case.

The Stanford team, in my experience, have the wisdom to take a multidisciplinary approach to this problem i.e. they adress both the symptoms and the cause/causes after completing a Urological work-up. It is of no coinicidence that 2 of the 'key players' in this team have recovered fromCPPS themselves.

Stress can be the root cause for some, but the trigger points are the result and need to be treated directly. This is my point, you need to treat both the root cause, whatever it is, and then treat the resulting trigger points.

Trigger points happen as a result of a muscle being overloaded by one factor or another. You need to take on board that tensing as a result of stress/anxiety etc. is only one of these causes. For example, I have never suffered from anxiety at any point in my life, and also never habitually tense my pelvic floor (and remember, I have been through formal relaxation training and learned to sense the slightest tension in all of my major muscle groups) - I developed chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome as a result of a prostate infection. Also, altered pelvic biomechanics can overload muscles and cause trigger points, as can vitamin deficiencies etc.

I had all of the painful symptoms and missed quite a bit of work due to my pelvis pain, and after reading Sarno's book and really accepting the diagnosis I was able to rid myself of this condition within about a week and a half.

I don't believe you have been able to 'rid yourself of your condition'. I think you have been able to reduce the autonomic arousal of your trigger points by becoming much more relaxed and having a better understanding of one part of the picture (which is great news!). Your experience is not unique: David Wise has stated that people have experienced marked improvements in their condition just from reading his book. The understanding produces relaxation in an individual experiencing anxiety which, in turn, reduces the electrical activity in their trigger points which, in turn, decreases their symptoms. This is also why antibiotics sometimes help some chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome patients who have never had an infection - the placebo effect decreases anxiety.

Compare the video clip where the patient is put in a stressful situation with the one where she is practising a relaxation technique - you will see what I am talking about.

I believe western medicine has failed us in many respects, because treating the body without consideration for the mind and spirit is bound to fail.

I agree 100%, but you and others seem to be suggesting treating the mind without treating the body which is just as short-sighted.

I'm really pleased you are feeling so much better and am very grateful to you for sharing your story here, as it will offer hope to many people. However, part of the purpose of this website is to further scientific knowledge and understanding of these conditions. People seem keen to have the answer, and to create a standard profile of a chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome sufferer and a one size fits all treatment plan - this is the easy answer, and human nature likes easy answers. I always have a problem with anyone who says 'Its due to infection' or 'it's due to stress'. There can be a multitude of factors which impact on chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome (urological; psychological; biomechanical; nutritional; ergonomic) and all patients must be evaluated for all of these factors, and an individual treatment plan tailored accordingly.

At the moment, scientific evidence suggests that multiple trigger points and the most common cause of chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome and that these must have direct physical intervention to be resolved. It also supports the notion that relaxation strategies are an important part of this process as they decrease arousal and quieten down the electrical activity in trigger points. They also support the healing process in general, which is why I continue to practice relaxation for at least 30 mins each day.