Please read this!!!

[Pelican]

Hi

Ill try to keep this as short as possible, this is my story.
About three years ago my world went upsidedown, I began to suffer from anxiety and depression. Shortly after I began to fell a burning pain from my lower stomach. This pain didn't want to go away. For about a year I felt the same. I began visiting many doctors and urologists who could do little more than give me a lot of different medications which did nothing to help me. Now two more years later the pain has spread, I now have pain in my back and prostate. I've also developed sexual dysfunctions as erection problems and premature ejaculation.
Recently went to a different town and visited a PT who said that the muscles around the pelvic area and back were really sore and tight. I recently read AHIP and suspected the same thing he told me. All the money I've spent on different doctors and medications for nothing, well at least now I know(hopefully). I'm just so mad at all the doctors who just keep guessing and/or ignoring this problem which many people obviously suffer from. If I had the money I woul definitly go to meet Dr.Wise and his doctors. I've also heard about a man named Bill Taylor in Scotland, thats a little closer to my country Sweden. I have yet to find someone with much experience on chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome here in Sweden.
Well well, now I've just started relaxation and stretching everyday, the strange thing is that my pain has increased somewhat since I started three days ago, has that happened to anyone here?
Since I can't find a good PT who can help me with triggerpoints my best hope is to go with the stretches and relaxation. I'm thinking about trying alphablockers, anyone with experience on that?
Well well the thing is I think I could live with the pain, the worst part for me is the sexual dysfunction. Not to be able to feel like a man and trying to explain this condition to my girlfriend, thats what killing me inside.
I'm really happy to read all the success stories on this forum and I'm happy for all you who got well. Keep it up!
If anyone here has any advice for me, especially regarding the sexual dysfunctions PLEASE REPLY it would mean so much to me.

Great forum!

Thank you

[CppsDad]

Hi Pelican. Your story mirrors a LOT of stories on here. Immense stress --> Anxiety and depression --> Pelvic Pain. I think you are probably right to take stock in the Dr. Wise's theories (assuming you've had cultures and other tests to rule out anything more serious).

I'm just so mad at all the doctors who just keep guessing and/or ignoring this problem which many people obviously suffer from

This was me too. The doctors seems so nice and smug about their conclusions, and they weren't even in the right ballpark for me. This is common for chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome patients. Just be glad you didn't have anything "removed" in some wacky surgery.

Well well, now I've just started relaxation and stretching everyday, the strange thing is that my pain has increased somewhat since I started three days ago, has that happened to anyone here?

This is exactly as it should be. I can't think of any better sign that you are on the right track than this. These stretching flare-ups will decrease after a few weeks. But even now, if I lay off stretching for more than 3-5 days, I can get a minor flare-up when stretching again. My best advice is: Don't back off from your stretching. I backed off from doing the "right" things a lot of times, and I always came back to it later, only to find that the very thing I backed off from was the exact thing I needed. Flare-ups from therapy are the single hardest thing to deal with, because no one likes to do things to themsevles that cause pain. But this is exactly what we have to do. Just don't evaluate the course of your treatment in the short term - look at the results 6 months down the road. If you focus on how you feel today, you will back off your treatments.

Well well the thing is I think I could live with the pain, the worst part for me is the sexual dysfunction.

For me, the dysfunction was in the terrible pain sex caused, and the very minor affect on my erection strength. But regardless, any affect on your sexual function is hard to deal with. This caused more depression for me than anything else. In your case, the source of your ED is probably decreased blood flow from pelvic muscle tension, AND tension due to anxiety and depression surrounding the condition. This is a severe blow to any of us, and the only way you can meet it is to take it head on, and beat it. Do your stretches with more conviction, and your relaxation, and get exercise. Don't give up or you will regret it.

I'm really happy to read all the success stories on this forum and I'm happy for all you who got well.

This is what this board is all about. It's the reason I joined and stayed. Be an active participant while you go through your therapy, and we will all be here to help. I participate for the same reason you do, to help me get better and get morale support.

If anyone here has any advice for me

Don't forget to do external massage on your perineum, abdominals (my two most important external trigger points areas), and you hamstrings and lower back and buttoks and thighs. These areas were all important to my recovery, and I didn't know that at the beginning. Treat it ALL, and you will make recovery quicker.

Just hang in there, do your therapy completely and not half-assed, and reassess your condition in 6 months, but NOT before. Ignore the flare-ups, and just keep at it. And if you get a flare-up that you aren't sure about, or hit a spot you think is "bad" to work on, post your thoughts on the forum so you can get good advice about them before giving up on that region. In my experience, almost everything I thought was "bad" to work on turned out to be good in the end.

Michael

[Pelican]

Michael

I have a question about the massage, how do you find the trigger points do you have any good way to recommend in finding these trigger points. My PT managed to find a lot of them in my buttocks, lower back, lower stomach and for some reason my upper back. But I'm having trouble finding them on my own. I have ordered a Theracane from US, hopefully it will arrive soon although I live in sweden.
One more question, my PT said that the trigger points in my abdomen should refer to the pain in my pelvis. So he meant that the while he was pressing the TP I should get some sort of feeling streaming down to my pelvic area. I didn't and he said something like some do, some dont do you get this feeling when youre working your TPs?

Thank you very much for your answers!

[Graduate]

Pelican,

I don't want to interfere with your conversation with Michael, but a great book to help you find your trigger points is

The Trigger Point Therapy Workbook: Your Self-Treatment for Pain Relief
Clair Davies, Amber Davies

You may already have it, if not you can get it on Amazon.

Also the latest (3rd edition) of AHIP provides a quite detailed diagrams and discussions on trigger point locations.

I hope this helps you,

all the best

[Pelican]

Thank you, I've heard much about the trigger point therapy workbook. I think I'm going to order it too!

[CppsDad]

Pelican,

My PT managed to find a lot of them in my buttocks, lower back, lower stomach and for some reason my upper back.

Once again, a good sign. Also, the more external TP's you have, the more likely you'll be able to help yourself in the long run.

I have ordered a Theracane

Excellent. This is the single best implement I've found for self-treatment. It has done more good for me than any other therapy I have done. It also makes treating some trigger points much much much easier.

how do you find the trigger points do you have any good way to recommend in finding these trigger points.

Basically, if it hurts more than the area next to it, I treat it as a trigger point. There are enough places of similar composition to test a trigger point against a "normal" area. The one thing you have to discern is the fact that pressing directly on a lot of spots hurts a little anyway, so you have to distinguish between what is "normal" pain, and what is "trigger point" pain. Once again, comparing to other areas on your body is important. Over time, you'll get more and more experience with your own body and it's reaction to trigger point work. You don't have to push hard to find these spots, but you do have to use a little effort to hold and release them. Also remember that you aren't just treating trigger points, but you are also treating muscles that are just "sore" and need to be massaged. Another good set of tests is to work on your upper back and shoulders and neck. These areas have sore spots for almost everybody, and can be good practice without the fear of causing flareups.

One more question, my PT said that the trigger points in my abdomen should refer to the pain in my pelvis. So he meant that the while he was pressing the TP I should get some sort of feeling streaming down to my pelvic area. I didn't and he said something like some do, some dont do you get this feeling when youre working your TPs?

The referred pain varies for me, but more often than not, I get referred pain from pressing on my abdominal trigger points. There are spots in the middle of my abdomen that when pressed, shoot pain to the hips, to the penis, and all the way to the sphincter and buttocks - all from the same spot. There were times, however, that I felt little to no pain from this. I think part of this can be attributed to the fact that the trigger points were being covered by hard muscle tissue that had to be worked out first. This muscle tissue was incredibly tight, but wasn't yet referring pain. After a few sessions of work on these areas, the outer shell of muscle became softer. Once the tough layer of muscle was softer, I was able to reach trigger points that I couldn't touch before. You don't want to punture a hole in muscle fibers that aren't ready to give yet, so you have to just be thorough every time and eventually, you'll get "deeper". If you go too fast, you will hurt a lot more.

I wanted to amend something I said earlier. I said your ED was "probably" being caused by tension and anxiety. But I should modify this. What I should have said was that your ED "could" be caused by tension and anxiety. I am not a doctor, and there are a lot of reasons for ED, so please accept my hypothesis but don't rely on it. Now, with that said, I think the chances of someone going under extreme stress, developing anxiety and depression, and then developing random unrelated chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome pain, and random unrelated ED that he never had before, are low. Common sense tells me that it is all related, and that you don't need to fear some hidden medical problem that is causing your ED. But, that's just my opinion. In fact, I think there are probably millions of ED sufferers who have no idea that they are having ED due to chronic pelvic tension. Those sufferers don't have pelvic pain, but have a reduced urinary stream and/or ED. Their doctors give them drugs to dialate blood vessels, but aren't treating the cause of their problem. Once again, that's just my opinion. :)

Mike

[Pelican]

How about medicines like Cialis or viagra, alphablockers(xatral), Quercetin, anti-dep meds(prozak, fontex etc) and others.
In my case my PT told me that anti-dep would be a good solution to loose some of the anxiety and help relax the muscles, its also good for premature ejaculation treatment. I'm just worried about the side effects. The last time I was on anti-dep I couldnt drink alcohol or I would go insane, I often had complete blackouts and my friends had to tell me all the stupid things I did. I also felt like the creativity I used to have in my thinking which I really need in my future line of work sort of disappeared. The good thing was that I could have sex for hours although I didn't suffer from premature ejaculation at that time it really extended that ability. I also got that little bit of extra energy to get through the day!
Anyway, now I'm thinking about trying Cialis for the erection and maybe some alphablockers for the pain.
Does Cialis or Viagra help with premature ejaculation?
I dont know about following my PTs advice on the anti-dep, what do you guys think?
It would seriously improve my sexlife and maybe help me relax now that I've begun relaxation and stretching. Maybe try it out for six months or so. I'm just a little worried since it almost ruined my last relationship.

Thanks everyone, especially Mike for your help so far!

[CppsDad]

How about medicines like Cialis or viagra, alphablockers(xatral), Quercetin, anti-dep meds(prozak, fontex etc) and others.
In my case my PT told me that anti-dep would be a good solution to loose some of the anxiety and help relax the muscles

I say do whatever you have to do to get you through this hard time. The therapy will take 6 months or longer before you see lasting results, and during this time, times will be rough. So if Cialis helps improve blood flow and helps your sex life, go for it. But keep working at your therapeutic approach, or you'll be stuck on the stuff forever, or you run the risk of your problems getting worse and the stuff won't work for you any more.

Things that reduce anxiety and relax the muscles are good too. You can't recover from this unless you can do both of those things. I don't know how bad your anxiety is, but my anxiety was terrible. In fact, it ruled my life moreso than my chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome when it was at its peak. Pain, I can deal with. Trouble breathing, fainting spells, THAT I can't. So, in my case, I turned to Xanax to help me beat the anxiety, and I slowly learned how to manage my stress and emotional state, to the point where I don't even take it any more. But do not take any anti-depressants or anti-anxiety meds without having a 100% committment to your relaxation training, stretching, and therapy (self or otherwise). Taking this meds without working on your own self-help gameplan leads to dependency. Use them to get over the hump.

The good thing was that I could have sex for hours

For most of us, this type of marathon session would greatly exacerbate our conditions. I would try to avoid this until you make some progress in your health first, otherwise you could set back your recovery. But play it by ear - if you feel good, and don't have any lasting effects from doing this, go for it.

I'm just a little worried since it almost ruined my last relationship.

I think it's good to know the risks. If you do end up taking the stuff, I have no doubt you'll be smart about it, and try to keep it short term. With enough hard work, you will probably not need any meds (or at least only very little).

Thanks everyone, especially Mike for your help so far!

I'm here every Thursday. Make sure you tip your waitresses!

Mike

[lupus]

Hi Pelican,same story here,dealing with the erection dysfunction thing which I personally attributed to my chronic prostatitis damaging neuromuscular components.....the point is !!,Will it be permanent?,the bad news are that I dont know of any recovery case regarding the erection dysfunction problem.....but at least well keep on finding solutions,for me Cialis and Viagra works but been on these meds all my life when you are 30 sucks ,for me it is not a real solution although I have no better option!!

Lik Sprava. 1995 May-Jun;(5-6):169-72. Related Articles, Links


[The treatment of chronic prostatitis complicated by sexual disorders with vibrotherapy]

[Article in Ukrainian]

Havryliuk IP, Havryliuk MI, Samchuk OM, Kurylo VIa, Havryliuk SI.

The authors used intrarectal local vibrotherapy in 151 patients with chronic prostatitis; of these, 72 had corticospinal impotence. The most numerous group of cases with chronic prostatitis complicated by impotence was constituted of those patients with an inflammatory process in prostate, whose parenchymas were badly injured by a pathologic process leading to different stages fibrosis. The authors regard impotence as a sequence of events in the course of a pathologic process in spinal cord according to the Law of Hysteresis, bearing in mind that the process of hysteresis is reversible. All patients derived apparent therapeutic benefit from vibratory message in a combined treatment of chronic prostatitis, having got well in the long run. Recovery of sex function was observed in 52%. In cases of fibrosis development in patients with impotence the only current hope for improvement in the condition is offered by stimulation with electrical current of the colliculus seminalis zone.

[Michael in Boston]

He is an experienced member who has viisted Stanford and understands the problem/resolution well. Try looking him up in a search and PM ing him

[lupus]

Michael in Boston ,I'm sure that you understand better than me the problem and I do know that you probably are closer to find a real solution for all cases of chronic pelvic pain than I am......but if it doesnt bother you,I would like to know if you can name just a single case of prostatitis combined with sexual dysfunction that has recovered full sexual strengh after suffering from chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome ,lets say.... for a couple of years or more.......I'm talking about real chronic pathology, years of inflamation and pain.....from my point of view some kinds of neuromuscular damage can be permanent in some cases,its just my humble opinion.....

[Pelican]

I've heard of people who got their erection back after getting well. I hope its the same for us once we do. This condition can be relly tough, before finding this forum it felt like no one understood. Thank you everyone and a big thanks to the ones running his forum. Guess I'm gonna try cialis as well. Does cialis help for premature ejaculation too?
Its funny how things can just change. Prior to this my sexlife was really, really good and now its reduced to like NONE. Ah well, keep the faith right!

[Pelican]

Lupus

Thanks Ill do that!

[CppsDad]

I found that when my muscles are most sore, and are least able to handle tension, that premature ejaculation is more common. I do believe you can overcome this if you can get rid of the trigger points that are preventing them from holding tension longer, and can increase the blood flow and allow the muscle tissue to heal.

Keep your spirits up guys. I don't believe you've suffered permanent damage physically; emotionally I cannot guarantee though.

Michael