Facet Joint Syndrome

[Nevilleb]

Hi guys,

First post but I believe I may have some information to share.

I've finally been diagnosed with Facet Joint Syndrome of the lumbar (lower spine). This is after two years of treatment for Prostatitis and possible bulging disk pain. I have frequently asked my numerous specialists if there is any connection between my back pain and my Prostatitis (Pelvic Pain). The answer has always been NO.

My Pelvic Pain always starts on the left hand side of my groin. It's a burning, searing pain that lasts for about two-three weeks. I also get left testicle retraction. Well guess where the Facet Joints in your back radiate pain to. That's right! The groin! There are nerves from your facet joints to your genitals too.

Groin pain = Urinary Problems = Prostatitis.

I have read virtually every bit of information possible on Prostatitis but I have never seen this mentioned anywhere. I've seen numerous Urologists, even Mr Julian Shah (The Prostate Centre) and not one have them have ever tried to find a connection between back pain and Prostatitis (unless it is caused by Prostatitis). Even now when I spell it out to them they haven't conceded a connection.

There are a few guidelines I've been using. Log all symptoms, ask as many questions as you can, get extensive tests, don't believe your Urologists and don't give up. Also I have been given Pilates as a way to help my back pain. That only made the pelvic pain worse. Remember these guys, even the top ones, don't really know much.

The most annoying thing I have heard again and again is "we won't ever find out what is causing your prostatitis. Stop obsessing and learn to live with it." Arrggghhh. I think because the problem is very complex and they have so many patients to see they give up. Give antibiotics, alpha blockers, maybe Pregabalin...and then get bored. Oh and continue to take your money if you are a private patient.

I still have a little bit Prostatitis but it is only flared up by the referred Facet Joint Pain. I believe when the Facet Pain goes I have a big chance of calming down my nervous system and recovering. I had 4 months of no Prostatitis before the Pilates stirred it all up again. They will tell me it's muscle pain. I think it's back pain.

Before I got into this state I was a film maker. If I recover I will make a film to publicise this terrible condition but also the total lack of appropriate treatment and care available to the men who suffer from it.

I will post more details if asked.

Hope everyone has a good weekend.

Rich

[webslave]

Hmm, I'm not convinced. I've seen men with chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome diagnosed with all sorts of other things, usually to no avail. Often the patient is overjoyed with the new diagnosis, thinking they've found a "get out of jail" card.

You should have the Facet Joint Syndrome (aka Zygoapophyseal Joint Pain) diagnosis confirmed with an injection. An injection of long acting local anaesthetic and anti-inflammatory corticosteroid into the facet joint, if successful, confirms the diagnosis. The injection is best done by a Radiologist under an image intensifier.

Perhaps the most definitive diagnosis of facet joint pain can be made by a facet joint injection (or facet joint block), which injects the suspicious facet joints with a small volume of a combination of x-ray contrast material, local anesthetic and cortisone. Relief of the acute or chronic problem during the time of action of this combination of drugs is diagnostic. (source)

A diagnosis of facet joint syndrome is confirmed by injecting an anesthetic and an anti-inflammatory in the joint. If there is immediate relief of pain after the injection, the condition is facet joint syndrome (source)

Pain referral maps of FJS show radiation mainly to the buttocks and posterior thigh. This is not the picture we see in CPPS.

[Jay]

I'm sure spinal issues could be a potential cause, but I don't believe it's the cause. chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome patients vary so much in terms of what they experience, some sets of symptoms would make no sense for FJS. I believe we're dealing with a number of issues which ultimately prompt the same condition.

I would also add ... if you're fortunate enough to have a urologist willing to take your money repeatedly, you have found a unique soul. Many would just kick you off the books in favor of a surgical patient. ;) I finished with uros years ago and went into pain management, where I receive much more compassionate medical care.

[Nevilleb]

I'm not saying they are the same thing.

I'm saying that the groin pain from Facet Joint Syndrome is the trigger for my Prostatitis. Facet Joints in the lumbar spine do refer to the groin.

The reason Prostatitis is so hard to treat is that there are hundreds of ways in which you can get it. There are so many nerves and structures in the pelvis that uncovering the cause is incredibly difficult.

My pain always starts on the left hand side of my groin. Always. Then my bladder starts to misbehave. Eventually my prostate gets inflamed.

I will report back if I have success.

[Nevilleb]

Just thought I'd give you all an update

I am into my 2nd week and now have full sexual function back. This is like a miracle! No pain. Proper erection. etc

It seems my pelvis was twisted and causing nerve irritation throughout my pelvis. Bladder, bowel, sexual organs etc...

There may be more people out there who have the same problem but it's unlikely you'll ever get it spotted unless you go to a chiropractor who's willing to take x-rays of you standing up. They could clearly see a twist in my pelvis.

I think everyone should go to a chiropractor to get properly aligned. It will improve the nervous system in your body which at the very least will give you a better chance of recovery.

I'll come back with more at a later date.

[webslave]

I am into my 2nd week and now have full sexual function back. This is like a miracle! No pain. Proper erection. etc

And your treatment has been what, exactly?

[Nevilleb]

I went to see the chiropractor nearly two weeks ago. He took a standing x-ray from my neck down to my sacrum.

Looking at that he could see the natural way my spine is shaped in day to day life. The NHS take all their scans lying down which gives a false perspective as the spine usually straightens in that position.

My scan showed a twist and bend in my spine. The work I've had so far is to have small adjustments from the chiropractor to shift my spine back into it's proper alignment. You lie on a bench and he uses his body weight to do regular, physical compressions on the spine to slowly get the spine back to how it used to be.

I should say that you need to see a GOOD chiropractor.

It's still early days for me but I'll keep you informed. As chiropractors have largely been ostracised by regular health professionals it's possible that this treatment hasn't been considered for pelvic pain. There's a very good chance that other people actually have some level of nerve impingement in their bodies.

A healthy spine is a healthy nervous system free of impingement. That's got to make sense hasn't it! Gives your body the very best chance of healing itself.

Even if this doesn't cure your pelvic pain it's a good idea for your health.

[webslave]

Be very, very careful with chiropractor treatments. Personally, I would not go back after I was injured by one as a young man.

Chiropractic and Stroke

[Nevilleb]

What happened?

Did they do an x-ray before treatment? I think this is really important.

I'm sorry to hear you had pain.

I think with all these things it very much depends on who you see. There are scare stories but then there are for all medical professionals. How many GP's have given improper drugs/doses? Missed Cancer? etc

There are large gaps in the general health service and even bigger one's in the treatment of prostatitis.

It now doesn't surprise me that Urologists struggle to diagnose and treat Prostatitis. They simply do not have enough knowledge of the entire body, the nervous system, immune system etc. When you read that people are encouraged to look at the whole body you think "Who does that?". The answer, at least in the UK, is no one.

If I hadn't got my x-ray at the chiropractor I would NEVER have found the twist at the base of my spine. My sexual function is back, my bladder has calmed down, no more groin pain. This after just 3 weeks.

I'm not saying it's the answer for everyone but I will say everyone will benefit from having a healthy nervous system and a good chiropractor will help you get one.

I went to one because I was rock bottom. I had actually begun to plan my suicide. Groin pain, no erection, bladder problems, bowel problems, headaches (neck), severe back pain....it goes on. The NHS told me to 'live with it'. I had a chronic pain condition and I would never find the cure. This simply covered up their lack of knowledge and laziness.

How many people on here would say they've had a thorough physical exam? Not many I would vouch.

[Nevilleb]

Does anyone know how much research has been done into skeletal structural problems and pelvic pain.

Your hip heights, spine shape, flat feet, etc all have a big influence on how your pelvis operates and also how much work the muscles do in that region. Disks and Facet Joints in your back can all refer nerve pain into the pelvic area.

For example if your hips are different heights then muscles on one side of your body has to work extra hard to compensate. This could lead them to be painful and trigger pelvic pain.

I just think this whole area may have been overlooked because chiropractors have been ignored by conventional medicine.

I think in the future there will be pelvic pain centres which contain urologists, trigger point physio's, chiropractors, neurologists,rheumatologists, etc. There are so many reasons for this problem that you need to be given a full examination by all these people to look at your whole body.

[Nevilleb]

An Explanation and Cure for a common cause of CPPS
The following is my view having seen virtually every possible medical practitioner over the last 5 years.

I am now totally cured btw.



Chronic Prostatitis is commonly caused by muscular dysfunction in the pelvis. The thing that causes this muscular dysfunction is sacro-iliac joint dysfunction. This is a mis-alignement of the bones of the pelvis.

At sometime in your life, probably 10-20 years ago, you fell or banged your bum/lower back. This force was enough to slightly shift the sacro-iliac joints out of alignment. This can only be by a few millimeters.

Once the sacro-iliac joint is not functioning properly, the muscles that surround the joint become tense to try to hold the disordered joint in place. The pelvis then becomes twisted. This is not something that will commonly show up on an MRI.

This twist travels throughout your spine and will affect you from your feet to your head.

Within the Pelvis, there is a Sacral nerve called the Pudendal nerve. This nerve innerverates the anal sphincter, bladder neck and sexual organs. As the pelvis muscles are tight, they squeeze on the Pudendal nerve, causing it to send 'disturbed' signals to the organs it services. Your bum will be tight, your bladder neck will be unstable and you make have sexual function problems. As the pelvis is tilted and twisted, the pudendal nerve also now has to pass through a slightly different path, this also can stretch or squeeze the nerve.

With a disordered bladder neck, urine will spurt into the Prostate causing it to be inflamed.

* A mis-aligned Sacro-Iliac Joint will cause pain in the bum, coccyx, groin, hips, lower back, etc.

SO HOW DO I FIX IT?

You need to find an EXCELLENT Osteopath or Chiropractor. Ask around friends and family for someone they recommend. You need to be checked for any form of spinal misalignment. You pelvis should be checked for any twist or tilting. This can then be corrected over weeks or even months of treatment.

As the pelvis re-aligns, the pudendal nerve will be released, the bladder neck will then calm down and so the Prostate will work normally.


OTHER CONDITIONS COMMONLY FOUND

As there is a spinal misalignement at the heart of this issue, many other illnesses will usually be present in the patient's life. Some of the common ones are.

Tinnitus
Anxiety,
ADHD,
Depression.
IBS,
Knee Cap Issues on one side.
Lower back pain
Anal Problems


The real problem is the people we are sent to, Urologists, have no understanding of bio-mechanics. They scratch their heads and pre-scribe Antibiotics, Painkillers, muscle relaxants, bladder neck drugs.

I hope this helps at least one person.

In my view 'Pain Syndromes' are a load of tosh. As is nerve cross talk.

Look at your spinal alignment.

[webslave]

Interesting hypothesis you've thought up there, Nevilleb. Pity there's no confirmatory science.

[Nevilleb]

Interesting hypothesis you've thought up there, Nevilleb. Pity there's no confirmatory science.

Ask away.

[webslave]

Point to any study confirming your hypothesis.

[Nevilleb]

Point to any study confirming your hypothesis.

See Wikipedia's page on sacroiliac joint dysfunction

If you research Sacro Iliac Joint Dysfunction you will see it shares most of the symptoms which have been thrown together for CPPS.

If you can read my pathway and find any scientific flaw then be my guest!