Probably not a popular statement, but I remain unconvinced that the Stanford/Wise-Anderson Protocol is materially better than combination therapy of good PT and relaxation. I think the former is particularly important though and that Tim Sawyer probably is the top man in the field although excellent things are also said about Bill Taylor, Stacey Futterman, Marilyn Freedman, etc.
I am by no means saying that it's not as good as it's made out to be and it's probably the best overall package, but after reading this board it seems that people are getting equal benefit out of their own means of relaxation and PT. I guess it's really up to us what we choose to do.
In my own experience with Bill I felt I got some benefit out of it although nothing hugely substantial but then my circumstances are a bit different from others on the board as I had an obstruction at my bladder neck which needed removed. The main benefit for me was keeping me going through the first hard year and providing a little relief along the way. Perhaps with the obstruction removed things may be different now, who knows? I seem to be getting better very slowly month on month so I'm going to hold off on doing anything other than relaxing, taking my supplements and not stresing about it too much as this seems to work for me.
I guess if I had to say the best thing that has worked for me - aside from the surgery which I believe was absolutely essential to recovery - it would be time. Although I'm a long way from cured I'm about 60-70% of the way there. I put 50% of that down to the operation and the other 10-20% down to time and perhaps the supplements (Glucosamine, Chondriton, MSM, Omega 3 Oils and Quercetin). After 21 months of this I'm back at work, going out and socialising and generally living a fairly normal life. I do have constant discomfort but it's now mild (the general state) to moderate (becoming less frequent as time goes by) and it's a lot beter than a year ago. Heck, its better than three or six months ago generally.
It seems to me if you find something that works, no matter what that may be, then you start to recover. It's a grindingly slow process with many pitfalls but the broad trend does seem to be towards improvement. When I spoke to my Uro last he mentioned that it generally fizzles out over time although it can sometimes come back. He was also honest enough to admit he didn't know why this happened. This seems, at least so far, to be true.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that we shouldn't fixate on one treatment because then we become no better than the bacterial brigade - and shock horror - I do think some cases actually are bacterial, or at least pathogenic in nature. We have a duty to ourselves to explore all the options and make an informed choice of what we do next. This board is an excellent source of knowledge, however so is Pubmed and other readings. Keep the faith, do your research and you'll find something that works for you.
Thoughts?
Thoughts on SP, PT in general and the passage of time...
-
Sleeper Service
- Sage
- Posts: 617
- Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 3:49 pm
- Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Thoughts on SP, PT in general and the passage of time...
Age 56: Onset 2006 and bouts on and off since then. See posts for details.
-
webslave
- Maintenance
- Posts: 11430
- Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 3:18 pm
- Location: Please give your location so we can help better
- Contact:
Well, Sleeper, my thoughts, unsurprisingly, are that your operation may have had little to do with your recovery. Of course I am not sure of that, but it's an even bet. I suspect all the other things you have done are helping, and the psychological aspects of knowing this is not the end of the world and things do get better when you try the right things probably helped too.
As far as the bacterial brigade goes, no, that is still not a valid theory behind CPPS. There is no good science to support it. We have gone over this so many times. It's disappointing when intelligent posters who seem to have read a lot of the material here still think this is a valid theory. The chlamydia obsession voiced elsewhere is complete nonsense. Chlamydia is one of the bacteria most sensitive to antibiotics. Yes, an infection can be the trigger that starts CPPS, but careful testing proves it is not an ongoing feature.
No, Stanford is not the only place to get help with nerves, muscles and trigger points, but it is probably the best place, if you have the money, or if you live on the West Coast. In Europe, Bill Taylor is reportedly good, but some people have reported that he missed some key trigger points.
As far as the bacterial brigade goes, no, that is still not a valid theory behind CPPS. There is no good science to support it. We have gone over this so many times. It's disappointing when intelligent posters who seem to have read a lot of the material here still think this is a valid theory. The chlamydia obsession voiced elsewhere is complete nonsense. Chlamydia is one of the bacteria most sensitive to antibiotics. Yes, an infection can be the trigger that starts CPPS, but careful testing proves it is not an ongoing feature.
No, Stanford is not the only place to get help with nerves, muscles and trigger points, but it is probably the best place, if you have the money, or if you live on the West Coast. In Europe, Bill Taylor is reportedly good, but some people have reported that he missed some key trigger points.
| HAS THIS SITE HELPED YOU? Say Thanks by donating. Keep the Forum alive on the Internet! PayPal link at end of page ↓ Contact me at support at ucpps.men |  |
The key for me is this....
The fact that doctor's don't really know exactly what causes this condition tells me this is a stress disorder for many men. You have a broken arm, you get a cast and heal. With CP/CPPS, it comes from so many factors.
genetic disposition
diet
stress
injury or a combo of the 4 or all 4.
That's why I think our best bet is through diet modification, stress management, relaxation, self internal PT once learned, medication like Elavil low dosage because it helps with anxiety and calms injured nerves and staying fit through stretching and going out and living life by charging hard at what you love in a relaxed way. The protocol has worked for me over time and I continue to get well. It's slow, but it's the only option for me and I choose this path gratefully.
Regards, Carl...
The fact that doctor's don't really know exactly what causes this condition tells me this is a stress disorder for many men. You have a broken arm, you get a cast and heal. With CP/CPPS, it comes from so many factors.
genetic disposition
diet
stress
injury or a combo of the 4 or all 4.
That's why I think our best bet is through diet modification, stress management, relaxation, self internal PT once learned, medication like Elavil low dosage because it helps with anxiety and calms injured nerves and staying fit through stretching and going out and living life by charging hard at what you love in a relaxed way. The protocol has worked for me over time and I continue to get well. It's slow, but it's the only option for me and I choose this path gratefully.
Regards, Carl...
I am not a medical doctor. Please fill out your signature (click here) ☼ ☼ My Starter List for new members
I encourage anxiety prone UCPPS people to consider L-Theanine
Age, 44 onset age 37 Feb 2006 Freq. need to urinate. Sensation of having to urinate soon after going. Perineum discomfort/burning/tightness, pubic area discomfort @ times,poor urine stream, post urine dripping/spray. All symptoms have improved with my protocol. At the worst I give it a 1 to 2 on irritation and discomfort and frequency. Helps: Elavil 5mg for anxiety and mast cell protection, (will only take it as needed) self internal PT as needed, stretching, walking, stairmaster cardio workout and light weights, reducing stress, moment to moment relaxation, deep breathing relaxation and using a Theracane. Makes worse: sitting for long periods, stress, over focusing on it. Currently 95%-98% recovered. Stay positive, relaxed and control your anxiety.
I encourage anxiety prone UCPPS people to consider L-Theanine
Age, 44 onset age 37 Feb 2006 Freq. need to urinate. Sensation of having to urinate soon after going. Perineum discomfort/burning/tightness, pubic area discomfort @ times,poor urine stream, post urine dripping/spray. All symptoms have improved with my protocol. At the worst I give it a 1 to 2 on irritation and discomfort and frequency. Helps: Elavil 5mg for anxiety and mast cell protection, (will only take it as needed) self internal PT as needed, stretching, walking, stairmaster cardio workout and light weights, reducing stress, moment to moment relaxation, deep breathing relaxation and using a Theracane. Makes worse: sitting for long periods, stress, over focusing on it. Currently 95%-98% recovered. Stay positive, relaxed and control your anxiety.
I would say that the protocol is still very new in medical terms and with time will improve and more physios will be practising trigger point therapy and the ones who are already doing it will also be much better.In fact at a guess where would most people see the treatment for this disease in 15 years time.
I would like to think the protocol which will forever improve will be pretty widespread compared to now in fact even though I dont think uro,s will ever practise this I would like to think they could send you to a therapist.
at the end of the day this disease is a nightmare for most uro,s also who are clueless in this.
On the painkiller side there could be more help down this road as finding a good one that works can be difficult especially if ultram does not do the trick.
I would like to think the protocol which will forever improve will be pretty widespread compared to now in fact even though I dont think uro,s will ever practise this I would like to think they could send you to a therapist.
at the end of the day this disease is a nightmare for most uro,s also who are clueless in this.
On the painkiller side there could be more help down this road as finding a good one that works can be difficult especially if ultram does not do the trick.
Age:33 | Onset Age:19 | Symptoms:burning urethra, deep sore stinging around the perineum, dribbling | Helped By:when flare starts deep relaxing over a toilet to let out dribbling urine, hot bath, rubbing a heat cream on the perineum, Tens with a pad on the perineum, running, medication (solpadol) for pain. Current treatment: PT. | Worsened By:sitting, stressing over it, ejaculation, sometimes alcohol but I risk it. Been feeling a lot better last 6 months about 85% with a few flares lasting about 5 days. No longer having PT. Stretching every other night and I believe time is also a big factor for me
For clarification purposes can I say that when I recommend the Stanford/Wise-Anderson Protocol, I mean a mixture of relaxation and PT. I don't mean that people should only go to Stanford for treatment.
Not medical advice: Read my progress to date : Read about my W-A clinic visit
Age: 54 CPPS: 20 Yrs Recovery Status: 95% Symptoms: Pain around perineum Makes Worse: Tension, sitting Makes Better: Stretching, triggerpoint therapy, relaxation
Age: 54 CPPS: 20 Yrs Recovery Status: 95% Symptoms: Pain around perineum Makes Worse: Tension, sitting Makes Better: Stretching, triggerpoint therapy, relaxation
I've just finished reading the 4th edition of A HEADACHE IN THE PELVIS and it left me with pretty much the same feeling as when I read the 1st edition. You really have to go to Stanford to do it, which makes it very, very exclusive. If it was happening in the EU it would have Protected Designation of Origin status, like Champagnescotsman wrote:For clarification purposes can I say that when I recommend the Stanford/Wise-Anderson Protocol, I mean a mixture of relaxation and PT. I don't mean that people should only go to Stanford for treatment.
It's so prescriptive: no medications - especially not painkillers, no RSA without initial guidance, no tapes without attendance etc. I would say after re-reading the book that the authors view any PT/relaxation protocols that are cobbled together in the spirit of Stanford to be simulacra, at best.
So, I find it extremely positive that people are getting better by hand selecting their own Stanford-inspired protocols, as the implication in the book is that the authors' way is the only way.
Richard
Age: 39. | Onset Age: 30. Onset Date: January 2002. Symptoms (back then): Supra-pubic pain, back pain, urinary frequency, urgency and difficulty, weak stream, nocturia, (and variously) chronic fatigue, IBS. Current symptoms: more frequent than normal, but pretty much under control. Current amelioration: Xatral 10mg, Mirtazapine 30mg. | Worsened By: Stress, binge drinking, strained bowel movements, bloating, sitting on hard surfaces, jogging, and regularly - THE WINTER!
I'm not a medical expert. My comment is opinion. See your medical professional.
Age: 39. | Onset Age: 30. Onset Date: January 2002. Symptoms (back then): Supra-pubic pain, back pain, urinary frequency, urgency and difficulty, weak stream, nocturia, (and variously) chronic fatigue, IBS. Current symptoms: more frequent than normal, but pretty much under control. Current amelioration: Xatral 10mg, Mirtazapine 30mg. | Worsened By: Stress, binge drinking, strained bowel movements, bloating, sitting on hard surfaces, jogging, and regularly - THE WINTER!
I'm not a medical expert. My comment is opinion. See your medical professional.
Read up in this forum and get the book. You need to see a qualified PT to have a pelvic floor exam and learn from there and the book. Contact Dr. Wise to find a PT in your area if you are from the states.David1983 wrote:Can someone please point me towards info on self internal PT ?? Thank you.
I am not a medical doctor. Please fill out your signature (click here) ☼ ☼ My Starter List for new members
I encourage anxiety prone UCPPS people to consider L-Theanine
Age, 44 onset age 37 Feb 2006 Freq. need to urinate. Sensation of having to urinate soon after going. Perineum discomfort/burning/tightness, pubic area discomfort @ times,poor urine stream, post urine dripping/spray. All symptoms have improved with my protocol. At the worst I give it a 1 to 2 on irritation and discomfort and frequency. Helps: Elavil 5mg for anxiety and mast cell protection, (will only take it as needed) self internal PT as needed, stretching, walking, stairmaster cardio workout and light weights, reducing stress, moment to moment relaxation, deep breathing relaxation and using a Theracane. Makes worse: sitting for long periods, stress, over focusing on it. Currently 95%-98% recovered. Stay positive, relaxed and control your anxiety.
I encourage anxiety prone UCPPS people to consider L-Theanine
Age, 44 onset age 37 Feb 2006 Freq. need to urinate. Sensation of having to urinate soon after going. Perineum discomfort/burning/tightness, pubic area discomfort @ times,poor urine stream, post urine dripping/spray. All symptoms have improved with my protocol. At the worst I give it a 1 to 2 on irritation and discomfort and frequency. Helps: Elavil 5mg for anxiety and mast cell protection, (will only take it as needed) self internal PT as needed, stretching, walking, stairmaster cardio workout and light weights, reducing stress, moment to moment relaxation, deep breathing relaxation and using a Theracane. Makes worse: sitting for long periods, stress, over focusing on it. Currently 95%-98% recovered. Stay positive, relaxed and control your anxiety.
I agree that you don't have to go to stanford to get well. I have not gone and learned my own Stanford way of getting better. Webslave did not attend and recovered. So for example, paradoxical relaxation worked for Dr. Wise, but may not work for others like my self. I do my own type of relaxation etc.
So in the end I think every man has to do some form of diet and life style change, relaxation, stretching, phytotherapy and anxiety control through cognative therapy and meds if needed and some sort of pelvic floor palpitation to stretch the internal muscles and loosen them up along with moment to moment relaxation. This is not something that should be named the Stanford/Wise-Anderson Protocol and you have to go there to do it right
That's just simply not true. At least in my case. I encourage all CP/CPPS men to read the book and try a multi protocol that will likely help you get well again. Were dealing with quality of life here. You don't have to follow the protocol to the "T". I use meds as needed to get by in life etc...
Remember, sleeper's case is in the minority because along with CP/CPPS He had an obstruction and there is no way to know what came first, the chicken or the egg. That can be said for all of us who become symptomatic. We don't know what leads to it but we know what can help it heal over time and not let it get worse.
So in the end I think every man has to do some form of diet and life style change, relaxation, stretching, phytotherapy and anxiety control through cognative therapy and meds if needed and some sort of pelvic floor palpitation to stretch the internal muscles and loosen them up along with moment to moment relaxation. This is not something that should be named the Stanford/Wise-Anderson Protocol and you have to go there to do it right
That's just simply not true. At least in my case. I encourage all CP/CPPS men to read the book and try a multi protocol that will likely help you get well again. Were dealing with quality of life here. You don't have to follow the protocol to the "T". I use meds as needed to get by in life etc...Remember, sleeper's case is in the minority because along with CP/CPPS He had an obstruction and there is no way to know what came first, the chicken or the egg. That can be said for all of us who become symptomatic. We don't know what leads to it but we know what can help it heal over time and not let it get worse.
I am not a medical doctor. Please fill out your signature (click here) ☼ ☼ My Starter List for new members
I encourage anxiety prone UCPPS people to consider L-Theanine
Age, 44 onset age 37 Feb 2006 Freq. need to urinate. Sensation of having to urinate soon after going. Perineum discomfort/burning/tightness, pubic area discomfort @ times,poor urine stream, post urine dripping/spray. All symptoms have improved with my protocol. At the worst I give it a 1 to 2 on irritation and discomfort and frequency. Helps: Elavil 5mg for anxiety and mast cell protection, (will only take it as needed) self internal PT as needed, stretching, walking, stairmaster cardio workout and light weights, reducing stress, moment to moment relaxation, deep breathing relaxation and using a Theracane. Makes worse: sitting for long periods, stress, over focusing on it. Currently 95%-98% recovered. Stay positive, relaxed and control your anxiety.
I encourage anxiety prone UCPPS people to consider L-Theanine
Age, 44 onset age 37 Feb 2006 Freq. need to urinate. Sensation of having to urinate soon after going. Perineum discomfort/burning/tightness, pubic area discomfort @ times,poor urine stream, post urine dripping/spray. All symptoms have improved with my protocol. At the worst I give it a 1 to 2 on irritation and discomfort and frequency. Helps: Elavil 5mg for anxiety and mast cell protection, (will only take it as needed) self internal PT as needed, stretching, walking, stairmaster cardio workout and light weights, reducing stress, moment to moment relaxation, deep breathing relaxation and using a Theracane. Makes worse: sitting for long periods, stress, over focusing on it. Currently 95%-98% recovered. Stay positive, relaxed and control your anxiety.
I totally agree with you Carld; I just don't get that sense from the book. It's so...proprietary.carld wrote:...this is not something that should be named the Stanford/Wise-Anderson Protocol and you have to go there to do it right
Richard
Age: 39. | Onset Age: 30. Onset Date: January 2002. Symptoms (back then): Supra-pubic pain, back pain, urinary frequency, urgency and difficulty, weak stream, nocturia, (and variously) chronic fatigue, IBS. Current symptoms: more frequent than normal, but pretty much under control. Current amelioration: Xatral 10mg, Mirtazapine 30mg. | Worsened By: Stress, binge drinking, strained bowel movements, bloating, sitting on hard surfaces, jogging, and regularly - THE WINTER!
I'm not a medical expert. My comment is opinion. See your medical professional.
Age: 39. | Onset Age: 30. Onset Date: January 2002. Symptoms (back then): Supra-pubic pain, back pain, urinary frequency, urgency and difficulty, weak stream, nocturia, (and variously) chronic fatigue, IBS. Current symptoms: more frequent than normal, but pretty much under control. Current amelioration: Xatral 10mg, Mirtazapine 30mg. | Worsened By: Stress, binge drinking, strained bowel movements, bloating, sitting on hard surfaces, jogging, and regularly - THE WINTER!
I'm not a medical expert. My comment is opinion. See your medical professional.
pt vs standford
My PT has the book Head in The Pelvis and feels she can do the same job with trigger points and doesnt feel there is need to go to Stanford. Doesnt push the relaxation and lifestyle changes as much as I would say Dr. Wise probably does but She really believes in Dr. Wise's theory and like I stated in previous post is even giving lectures at medical centers Like UCI which is very prestigious medical center about the use of trigger point therapy. She says uros are only starting to except this treatment. She is training her PT's on internal work too. She says she has worked with a lot of guys and seen major improvements which is why she is so passionate about this form of treatment. This is one of the reasons I am so optimistic about working with her. I dont feel she would stake her reputation and go through such lengths to get the word out if she has not seen success. Not just looking for business either as she doesnt even post this treatment on her website as she is afraid she could not handle the volume. She does take referrals from some of the top uros in area. Finally, she did say that the cost of going to stanford are a little much but if you have plenty of cash go as it would not hurt. I wish Dr. Wise would hold more clinics for PT's to learn trigger point therapy form the best. This makes me wonder if he is trying to cash in a little. I encourage everyone to make that money as everyone has to live but he could really make bigger impact on how this condition is treated. My advice is try everything and see what works for you, try and stay of meds as they will do some damage in the long run. I think diet may be something that is not stresses enough or followed by some sufferers.
Take it easy!
Take it easy!
Age 32, onset 32 Onset Aug 07- frequency was main problem in the beginning-really bad. Now 1 to 2x per night when frequency flairs up. Sore and tight lower abdominal muscles. Occasional burning after bowel movement and full feeling. What helps: Healthy diet(this is huge for me) Started drinking super greens supplament and almost going totally vegetarian to get body more alkaline, starting Prosta-Q, quercetin/zinc tablet in morning helped frequency problem I believe. Massaging abs and doing stretches helps calm down frequency when it is acting up. Wine or vodka after long day. Flexeral and melatonin at night. Swimming and light weights. .5 of Elavil every other day helps with frequency and healing process. Trying to stay positive and not stressing over this!
i always wonder how Dr wise came about this all them years ago he never says who or how he got info about this protocol :-o
He says in the book it was by chance that he found this protocol after phoning many people
He says in the book it was by chance that he found this protocol after phoning many people
Age:33 | Onset Age:19 | Symptoms:burning urethra, deep sore stinging around the perineum, dribbling | Helped By:when flare starts deep relaxing over a toilet to let out dribbling urine, hot bath, rubbing a heat cream on the perineum, Tens with a pad on the perineum, running, medication (solpadol) for pain. Current treatment: PT. | Worsened By:sitting, stressing over it, ejaculation, sometimes alcohol but I risk it. Been feeling a lot better last 6 months about 85% with a few flares lasting about 5 days. No longer having PT. Stretching every other night and I believe time is also a big factor for me
Is labeling relaxation work and triggerpoint/stretching the "Stanford/Wise-Anderson Protocol" the best thing for us to do?
Dr Wise has certainly been the main figure in promoting and furthering this treatment path.
What other words/label could we use to quickly describe such an approach?
Richard.
Dr Wise has certainly been the main figure in promoting and furthering this treatment path.
What other words/label could we use to quickly describe such an approach?
Richard.
Not medical advice: Read my progress to date : Read about my W-A clinic visit
Age: 54 CPPS: 20 Yrs Recovery Status: 95% Symptoms: Pain around perineum Makes Worse: Tension, sitting Makes Better: Stretching, triggerpoint therapy, relaxation
Age: 54 CPPS: 20 Yrs Recovery Status: 95% Symptoms: Pain around perineum Makes Worse: Tension, sitting Makes Better: Stretching, triggerpoint therapy, relaxation
Pelvic Myoneuropathy Treatmentsscotsman wrote:Is labeling relaxation work and triggerpoint/stretching the "Stanford/Wise-Anderson Protocol" the best thing for us to do?
Dr Wise has certainly been the main figure in promoting and furthering this treatment path.
What other words/label could we use to quickly describe such an approach?
Richard.
-Pelvic floor exam and prescribed PT by a qualified PT. At home treatments of internal work taught by the PT
-Ant-inflammatory phytotherapy (Quercetin) and NSAID's as needed
-Hot relaxing baths as needed
-Anti-anxiety/cognitive therapy along with medication's Elavil low dosage and or SSRI's if needed by first seing a doctor or short term flair breakers like benzos....VERY carefully and with respect to yourself....and family
-Yoga type stretching and relaxation by just being in a quiet place and relaxing the muscles
-Moment to moment relaxation
-Diet and life style changes to avoid food irritants and stress reduction
-Prelief if needed
-Support group like this forum to speak on a regular basis with other men to help each other...We are not alone.
That's a start right
I am not a medical doctor. Please fill out your signature (click here) ☼ ☼ My Starter List for new members
I encourage anxiety prone UCPPS people to consider L-Theanine
Age, 44 onset age 37 Feb 2006 Freq. need to urinate. Sensation of having to urinate soon after going. Perineum discomfort/burning/tightness, pubic area discomfort @ times,poor urine stream, post urine dripping/spray. All symptoms have improved with my protocol. At the worst I give it a 1 to 2 on irritation and discomfort and frequency. Helps: Elavil 5mg for anxiety and mast cell protection, (will only take it as needed) self internal PT as needed, stretching, walking, stairmaster cardio workout and light weights, reducing stress, moment to moment relaxation, deep breathing relaxation and using a Theracane. Makes worse: sitting for long periods, stress, over focusing on it. Currently 95%-98% recovered. Stay positive, relaxed and control your anxiety.
I encourage anxiety prone UCPPS people to consider L-Theanine
Age, 44 onset age 37 Feb 2006 Freq. need to urinate. Sensation of having to urinate soon after going. Perineum discomfort/burning/tightness, pubic area discomfort @ times,poor urine stream, post urine dripping/spray. All symptoms have improved with my protocol. At the worst I give it a 1 to 2 on irritation and discomfort and frequency. Helps: Elavil 5mg for anxiety and mast cell protection, (will only take it as needed) self internal PT as needed, stretching, walking, stairmaster cardio workout and light weights, reducing stress, moment to moment relaxation, deep breathing relaxation and using a Theracane. Makes worse: sitting for long periods, stress, over focusing on it. Currently 95%-98% recovered. Stay positive, relaxed and control your anxiety.
-
webslave
- Maintenance
- Posts: 11430
- Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 3:18 pm
- Location: Please give your location so we can help better
- Contact:
Is Dr Wise "cashing in"? Firstly, his professional practice is now taken up with treating men with this condition. That's how he makes a living. He put together the Stanford/Wise-Anderson Protocol. He's entitled to make a very decent living from it, IMO. Think about all the uros who have cashed in on us for decades and not helped us at all!
He charges other PTs for training, and that's fair, why would he do it for free? He's not running a charity. It's like this website: guys love having it here and having their questions answered, or searching the archives, but some of them become outraged that they have to pay an entry fee, as if everything should be provided free. I wonder if these guys demand their money back from all the doctors they see when they are not helped?
Dr Wise actually does recommend other PTs (Marilyn Freedman is an example). He usually only recommends people he has trained, because there are now PTs all over the world offering the "Stanford/Wise-Anderson Protocol" without even knowing what it's all about. Men go to them for treatment and are not helped, or only partially helped, and the Stanford/Wise-Anderson Protocol gets a bad name as a result.
I can tell you that Dr Wise has spent hundreds of hours talking to men over the phone without getting a cent for it. I would not do that, I assure you! His practise is so busy with sufferers and clinics right now that he is rushed off his feet. The Stanford/Wise-Anderson Protocol is tremendously successful, and it has become widely recognised in the medical world as one of the best options, if not THE best option, for men with CPPS/pelvic myoneuropathy. (The term pelvic myoneuropathy is not known outside this website, so while I'd love it to be used, it probably won't be, since medicine is a very conservative profession where change is glacially slow).
Is the protocol "proprietary"? Yes, in a way it is. You may not advertise yourself as offering the protocol unless you have been trained at Stanford. Why is this? See above — if DW allows untrained people to use the term, it will soon be brought into disrepute.
Do I believe PTs can offer a very good simulacrum of the protocol without training at Stanford? Yes, I do, but it's hit and miss. Your PT may be totally incompetent, or you may find a skilled person who does it just right. It's luck of the draw. Do I believe men can treat themselves by simply reading the book and getting an implement to treat the pelvic floor? Yes, I think that can work for some men. But I still think that if you have the money and time, your very best bet is going to Stanford/Sebastopol.
People complain that the book A HEADACHE IN THE PELVIS is like a sales brochure to lure people to the clinics. That is absurd. DW only has complete confidence in the treatment he, his PTs and Rodney Anderson offer. He'd be nuts to suggest that men go to their friendly local PTs, psychologists and uros for the same tailored package of treatments! They would NEVER get this targeted package anywhere else. That's what's behind the sense of exclusivity. A multi-dimensional approach is needed, and as yet there are no other centers in the world where the three professions (psychologists, PTs and uros) have combined to deliver a body-slam to CPPS. People need to think a little bit before claiming that Wise and his colleagues are somehow suspicious or underhand in their methods. One day there may be many clinics around the world where this protocol is followed, but until then Stanford is the place to go, ideally.
He charges other PTs for training, and that's fair, why would he do it for free? He's not running a charity. It's like this website: guys love having it here and having their questions answered, or searching the archives, but some of them become outraged that they have to pay an entry fee, as if everything should be provided free. I wonder if these guys demand their money back from all the doctors they see when they are not helped?
Dr Wise actually does recommend other PTs (Marilyn Freedman is an example). He usually only recommends people he has trained, because there are now PTs all over the world offering the "Stanford/Wise-Anderson Protocol" without even knowing what it's all about. Men go to them for treatment and are not helped, or only partially helped, and the Stanford/Wise-Anderson Protocol gets a bad name as a result.
I can tell you that Dr Wise has spent hundreds of hours talking to men over the phone without getting a cent for it. I would not do that, I assure you! His practise is so busy with sufferers and clinics right now that he is rushed off his feet. The Stanford/Wise-Anderson Protocol is tremendously successful, and it has become widely recognised in the medical world as one of the best options, if not THE best option, for men with CPPS/pelvic myoneuropathy. (The term pelvic myoneuropathy is not known outside this website, so while I'd love it to be used, it probably won't be, since medicine is a very conservative profession where change is glacially slow).
Is the protocol "proprietary"? Yes, in a way it is. You may not advertise yourself as offering the protocol unless you have been trained at Stanford. Why is this? See above — if DW allows untrained people to use the term, it will soon be brought into disrepute.
Do I believe PTs can offer a very good simulacrum of the protocol without training at Stanford? Yes, I do, but it's hit and miss. Your PT may be totally incompetent, or you may find a skilled person who does it just right. It's luck of the draw. Do I believe men can treat themselves by simply reading the book and getting an implement to treat the pelvic floor? Yes, I think that can work for some men. But I still think that if you have the money and time, your very best bet is going to Stanford/Sebastopol.
People complain that the book A HEADACHE IN THE PELVIS is like a sales brochure to lure people to the clinics. That is absurd. DW only has complete confidence in the treatment he, his PTs and Rodney Anderson offer. He'd be nuts to suggest that men go to their friendly local PTs, psychologists and uros for the same tailored package of treatments! They would NEVER get this targeted package anywhere else. That's what's behind the sense of exclusivity. A multi-dimensional approach is needed, and as yet there are no other centers in the world where the three professions (psychologists, PTs and uros) have combined to deliver a body-slam to CPPS. People need to think a little bit before claiming that Wise and his colleagues are somehow suspicious or underhand in their methods. One day there may be many clinics around the world where this protocol is followed, but until then Stanford is the place to go, ideally.
| HAS THIS SITE HELPED YOU? Say Thanks by donating. Keep the Forum alive on the Internet! PayPal link at end of page ↓ Contact me at support at ucpps.men | |