UCPPS - Prostatitis, Interstitial Cystitis Forum

Hello All,

I thought I understood the moment-to-moment relaxation technique, but now I'm not sure. Is the slight drop in the musculature around the anus, in the groin, or both?

-Rod in Wisconsin

I try to do my whole pelvis but I always notice the relaxation more around my anus (where is does feel like it's dropping down a bit).

Richard.

I find that this technique is very useful right after visiting the bathroom for number one and number two. After you are finished let everything relax. It has been making a difference for me.

I suspect that like me at first, most who are trying to do the moment-to-moment (M to M) relaxation are trying to achieve the feeling of the muscles dropping. I would think that for many of us, this is difficult to achieve easily. And "M to M" should be easy. Any effort you make in your muscles to try to achieve this is contrary to what you are trying to do. You are trying to be as effortless as possible. You want to get out of the habits of forcing your pelvis out of pain.

SickofCP wrote:I suspect that like me at first, most who are trying to do the moment-to-moment (M to M) relaxation are trying to achieve the feeling of the muscles dropping. I would think that for many of us, this is difficult to achieve easily. And "M to M" should be easy. Any effort you make in your muscles to try to achieve this is contrary to what you are trying to do. You are trying to be as effortless as possible. You want to get out of the habits of forcing your pelvis out of pain.

I talked to a psychotherapist recently and he told me exactly what is described in AHIP: that you should let go of effort, you can't force your muscles into relaxation but I'm not sure I understand the paradoxical relaxation theory. When performing the technique as described in the book you are reminded every 10 minutes or so to relax. Would this be not conflicting with the "letting go of effort theory"?? After all this would remind you of your condition every 10 minutes or so...

benzo wrote: I talked to a psychotherapist recently and he told me exactly what is described in AHIP: that you should let go of effort, you can't force your muscles into relaxation but I'm not sure I understand the paradoxical relaxation theory. When performing the technique as described in the book you are reminded every 10 minutes or so to relax. Would this be not conflicting with the "letting go of effort theory"?? After all this would remind you of your condition every 10 minutes or so...

You let go of effort that easily lets go. You don't force anything. You are not supposed to ignore or forget about you condition. You are supposed to feel the tension passively without doing anything about it. Your tendancy is to keep your focus away from discomfort as much as you can. And when you do focus on such tension, the tendancy is to want to do something about it. You just feel it. If you can let go of it then you do. If you can't let go, then that's ok and just continue to witness it passively.

I've not bought the tapes, but prior to all of this chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome I took a class on relaxing meditation.

In that class we were tough to focus on our breathing, and then to move our focus to another part of the body (for example, the pelvis.)

To relax the muscles, I was taught that one can use breathing as a guide. When you breathe in, your lungs inflate and tense. Notice how it feels to have your lungs full. As you breathe out, notice how it feels for your lungs to relax effortlessly. Now, at the same time as you breathe out, apply the same feeling of relaxation to your pelvis. Let your pelvis relax as you breathe out.

Anyhow, that's how I anti-work on it.

The biggest outcome of Moment to Moment Relaxation for me has been that I am now often made aware of when I am tensing my pelvis. I use a two stage process to counteract it:

1) I actively stop the tensing. This is an active technique I use to focus my concious mind on the pelvic tension. If I didn't do this, my mind would likely drift off to the TV or whatever I am working on. I force my body to stop sucking in the muscles in the pelvic floor.

2) Once I have full conscious recognition of my pelvic posture, I go into the relaxation technique above, which contrary to (1) does not involve actively moving the muscles, except to let them "breathe out", as it were.

Situations where I always suck in my pelvic floor:

1. 1 hour after waking up in the morning, for no apparent reason
2. Playing video games. I suck in my pelvis and hold it that way (In the past, I likely held it like this for 8 to 10 hours at a time.)
3. Writing at a computer
4. Hearing bad news from my co-workers

Anyhow, I've been doing moment to moment for 8 months, and I still have to fight habitual tensing.

I'm going to a meditation session for three hours this weekend. This is the first group relaxation I will have done in two years. I wonder how it will work out.

LightningTree wrote: 3. Writing at a computer

Yes. Which is why so many computer workers get this.

Yep,

....And it is not dependent on the sitting position either. Lying down, I still do this .

I tense heavily playing video games too. Sometimes I notice that in the middle of a tense action sequence, my pelvic pain is the worst. We buy games that are gripping and involving; the more real the better. But I guess this also means we have to train ourselves NOT to tense when the video game throws us a scare or two. Although I notice I tense too when playing less scary games like a driving game - during these games I tense when trying to get my car to round a sharp turn. Tensing doesn't have to happen for "bad" reasons, it can happen when having fun as well.

Mike

I couldn't agree more Mike. Basically, I think the more "visceral" a game is, the more we tense our pelvis.

In particular, I have noticed that I really tense hard when I am doing something "physical", like you said, driving games, etc. The more I feel a need to "get in control" of a tense, simulated physical environment, the more I tense my pelvis.

My theory is that because it is a visceral simulated physical environment, where only our thumbs and fingers are interacting with the game environment, the rest of the body feels a need to pitch in to help control the situation. For me, this result in pelvic tension. Anyhow, that's my hypothesis.

I have been reading AHIP and practising what I can so far (in my situation I can't afford a PT so anything internal is out of the question) but I have been doing a lot with relaxation and stretching, and as far as the moment to moment (m2m) relaxation goes, I have learned a number of clues that might help. I found having post-it notes in just a few places to remind me of all these can be extra helpful, too.

In the car, use as "reminders" to relax your pelvis:
Every time you come to a red light.
Every time you have someone put on their brakes in front of you.
Every time a song changes on the radio, or commercials come on.
Every time someone honks.

At work (even though I'm on disability right now):
Every time you have to write an email.
Every time the phone rings.
Every time you get paged.
Any time a certain bell, buzzer, or otherwise goes off.
Every time a new person speaks at a meeting.

These are just a few, but I used to use them all the time for relaxation techniques years ago and they DO stick...you just have to keep at it like the rest of this. I'm doing what I can right now with all of this..I'm on day 8 of my Cipro and my discharge has stopped but I still have burning urination in the morning. Once I'm off the Cipro I'll hopefully be able to try more with external trigger points and stuff. I guess I'm just not sure what I have at the moment. So few people on here mention having a discharge...but since that responded to antibiotics (yes, I know they are anathema on here!) maybe I DO actually have something that needs them for the time being? I dunno...sorry to change the subject..I just don't have many people to vent to. Thanks for reading, and I hope the above ideas are of some help to those having a hard time doing the m2m relaxation.

I denfinetly think it is connected someway with the brain, video games were mentioned I notice I'm really bad when I'm watching my favourite football (soccer) team. You would sort of be kicking the ball in your mind during a tense game, or jumping in your body to avoid the baddy in a video game. Hope this makes sense

I think basically you have to meditate so much, in time you become a whole more calmer person. I also think that in order to be good at moment to moment relaxation you have to be good at paradoxial relaxation primarily because I know for myself I had become so use to the tension it was normal

I still think that what many are doing in the name of M2M relaxation, may just be manipulating the muscles into a different position that is not necessarily relaxed. I think most should be careful that they are not starting a bad habit of tensing the muscles in a new and different way. It should be easy and effortless. When your muscles are very tense, and you are in pain, you will not have an easy time relaxing these muscles.

inflamed wrote:I notice I'm really bad when I'm watching my favourite football (soccer) team. You would sort of be kicking the ball in your mind during a tense game, or jumping in your body to avoid the baddy in a video game. Hope this makes sense

It makes perfect sense to me. I think you are doing the same thing I do while playing a game. You emapthize with the soccer player to the point of trying to complete their actions for them, which results in you tensing your muscles in your fight reflex.

I also agree a lot with the last poster. Like I posted in another thread, I thought I was good at moment to moment relaxation, but according to my new PT and her biofeedback device, my anus is way to tense even in my supposedly 'relaxed' state. Moment to moment relaxation is not as easy as it sounds, and I think that once people get the hang of it, they then need to be taken aside to be told they still don't get it right, and to take it to the 'next level.' Almost like a cult religeon, only in this case, its about building a pathway to less tension.

That being said, I think that finding ways to measure and quantify relative tension is important for the Stanford/Wise-Anderson Protocol.

I know the authors do not think biofeedback technique is effective, so I think some other technique must be aqcuired, less the Stanford/Wise-Anderson Protocol become a hope train on the stairway to heaven, rather than a physical therapy protocol.

However, considering how much placebo affects this disorder, I imagine finding a reliable measure is fairly convoluted in that the feedback effect can greatly affect short term outcome. For example, it is my own personal belief that taking antibiotics partially works for a few days with disorder partially based on the placebo effect. I cannot comment on the antiinflammatory component.

I know that my first PT sensed rectal tension with his finger, and with that up there, I could feel relaxation in stages. Finding a reliable way to count and inform us of those stages seems critical for feedback, but is a tricky subject at the least.

Gosh! What a mess! That's ok. We plod on