How Helpful is the Wise-Anderson Wand?

[elitynski]

I'm surprised they are not on CD. It seems like that would be the best technology or as Yoink mentioned an Mp3 player.

I'm also curious why they wouldn't replace the tapes for people who've already been to the clinic for the cost or materials and shipping.

[webslave]

No idea why. I believe the technology is changing to mp3 player though, so the question may be moot.

[yoink15]

Hey everyone. Been a while since I've posted...wish I could say it's because I've been living the good life, symptom free, and not even thinking about CPPS...but sadly, five months into my Wise-Anderson Protocol, the pain and urinary frequency is still there. It's not AS BAD as it was five months ago, but I'd say I'm about half-way recovered. Which is good...but not perfect, and I'm striving for perfection. I have some days where my pain is low and my frequency is low (but it's still down there, in the background) and then I have other days where my pain and frequency is high. Gah. So frustrating. It looks like I'm on the "two year plan" for recovery, which I guess is pretty normal.

Anyways, I wanted to jump in here and say that about a month ago, Dr. Wise released an MP5 player with all of his relaxation sessions in digital format on it. It also has lectures on how to do paradoxical relaxation (these are not relaxation sessions themselves, rather like classroom lectures on what to do) and also several videos on how to use the wand and how to do external TP therapy.

After about one month of using this thing, here's my short review

PROS:

1. The classroom lectures on Paradoxical Relaxation are great! It's very, very similar to the talks that Dr. Wise gives each day at the Santa Rosa clinic, and it was wonderful to get a refresher course with lots of tips on how to really settle down and relax. There must be hours and hours of lectures on this mp5 player. I'm barely through the first hour.
2. The videos are excellent for someone just starting out using the wand and external TP work. They are both with Dr. Wise and Tim Sawyer and they are well done. They give video step by step instructions on how to use the wand and how to use a Theracane and your hands to do external trigger point work.
3. The paradoxical relaxation sessions themselves are in like seven different languages (if that helps you), and he's added four new ones to bring the total up to 52 sessions (I only got 48 on tape when I went to the clinic in 2008.)
4. It's an mp5 player so it's small and electronic and better than lugging around a set of 24 cassette tapes.

CONS: (sigh)

1. This thing is a piece of junk. It's got to be the absolute *cheapest* mp5 player the human race has ever constructed. The buttons barely work, the touch screen is super sketchy, the power button has the weirdest quirks ever, and the whole thing feels like it was manufactured in some fourth rate Chinese copy-cat factory in Shanghai. It's disappointing.
2. The ability to transfer data to and from your computer on the mp5 player HAS BEEN DISABLED. C'mon! I take this as a great affront to anyone who's even remotely computer savy. I was so excited to have all of Dr. Wise's excellent relaxation sessions finally available on digital format so I could transfer them all to my iphone and listen to them everywhere I went. Now I find that I'm locked out of transferring ANYTHING off of this mp5 player so I'm stuck using this piece of crap to listen to anything. It's so hard and clunky to use that I'm actually sticking with the cassettes for the time being since it's faster AND EASIER TO USE A DEAD TECHNOLOGY FROM 1980 than fiddle with this mp5 player. From what I understand the in-ability to rip the audio off of this thing stems from Dr. Wise's fear that someone might post them all on the internet and then someone might try to use them without proper instruction, and then give up too early (or at least that's what he told me back in 2008 when I asked why he put the relaxation sessions on tapes instead of cd's.)
3. The headphone jack on the mp5 player is super cranky and doesn't seem to like all headphones or ear buds you plug in there. It works okay with the crappy set of plastic ear buds it came with but when i plugged in my top of the line Logitech vi550 earbuds in there (comfortable and powerful) the mp5 player freaked out and had the most god awful audio output. Really? Seriously?

Anyway, for what it's worth, this mp5 player is available to anyone who is a current or former patient of one of the Santa Rosa clinics. If you visited Dr. Wise and went to one of his clinics, you can buy this thing from his office for 125 bucks plus shipping & handling. If it's been a while since you went to the clinic, or your tapes are wearing out, or you want a good refresher course on how to do the Wise-Anderson Protocol, then go ahead and buy this thing.

If anyone who has one has figured out how to rip data files off of it, please let me know because there's nothing more that I would like than to rip the *super good* audio, video, and info off this thing and put it on my iphone and toss this piece of junk in the trash.

So much good stuff ON the mp5...too bad it's all locked inside of the shittiest mp5 player ever made.

[webslave]

...five months into my Wise-Anderson Protocol ... I'm about half-way recovered.

That's pretty typical, from what the studies say.

So much good stuff ON the mp5...too bad it's all locked inside of the shittiest mp5 player ever made.

Hmm. First I've heard of this. I've sent a copy of your post to DW to see if he has a comment. You know that the moment he lets people transfer this to iPhones or other devices, it'll all be available via P2P, Usenet etc, don't you? What other solutions can you suggest?

[yoink15]

That's pretty typical, from what the studies say.

Sigh. I guess I have to take solace in that. I'm sure like every other man who's ever had CPPS, I had this secret inner belief that I was *different* than everyone else. That somehow, I'd be able to get over this with a simple snap of my fingers, and that somehow I was special. Well, I'm not special. I'm just like everyone else and have to stick to the Wise-Anderson Protocol just like everyone else. Maybe it's a component of being a type A personality (like many of us are) and how we're all very prone to thinking things like, "OH MAN I'M GOING TO FINISH THIS IN HALF THE TIME BECAUSE I CAN DO ANYTHING BY SIMPLY DOUBLING MY EFFORTS." Well, we all know how THAT turns out with CPPS. That kind of thinking only sinks us deeper into the hole. So like Tim Sawyer says, I guess I just have to "perform the Wise-Anderson Protocol with grace and flow" and let it takes me where it takes me.

Hmm. First I've heard of this. I've sent a copy of your post to DW to see if he has a comment. You know that the moment he lets people transfer this to iPhones or other devices, it'll all be available via P2P, Usenet etc, don't you? What other solutions can you suggest?

First Webslave, let me preface this by saying I have nothing but ultimate respect for Dr. Wise. His work and the content ON the mp5 itself is absolutely superb and I have nothing to complain about in that regards. The lectures on the mp5 are especially good. They are well paced and full of easy to digest info about Paradoxical Relaxation. That being said, my complaint is with the physical unit itself (as I discussed above). It's really a piece of junk. Operating just the power button at times can be a hilarious exercise in frustration. When I think about it, perhaps Dr. Wise simply got the cheapest product he could because he wants to make this as affordable as possible for his patients. I completely understand that sentiment. Hey, I get it. We don't need this stuff to be on a 64 gig jet-black iPod touch with all the bells and whistles. That's overkill. A simple, sensible mp5 player would be fine. No frills is fine. But this product is *beyond* no frills. The interface alone is exceptionally bad and it's construction feels incredibly flimsy. I think he went too far into the "cheap" realm with this one.

Now as for the digital distribution of his PR sessions....that's a tough one. You're right...the second those things are available in a high quality .mp3 format, they'll be all over the torrent sites and usenet. Whether Dr. Wise's motivations are to prevent piracy (which I doubt) or if it's to prevent the un-initiated from performing PR incorrectly and giving up (much more likely...as he's stated), I understand his desire to restrict their release on the internet. I don't have an answer to this. If he truly is afraid of the widespread misuse of his PR sessions and the subsequent "giving up" of users who are not trained correctly...then he's doing the right thing. Keep them out of the hands of the un-trained and invite them to Santa Rosa to learn the right way to do it all.

But I believe that those of us who HAVE been trained in PR and who LOVE the PR sessions.....really cherish the relaxation they bring and we would never betray his trust by posting them on the internet. I understand that this is hundreds and hundreds of people...and I suppose they're not all trustworthy. Oh well. At this point I don't see any other solutions.

I want to put these on my iPhone so bad I've considered way to rip them off the cassettes myself using my PC. The two things that are stopping me are that it's got to be done in real time and that's going to take HOURS, and I can't find a good method to do it that doesn't introduce a ton of noise and other sound artifacts into the process. I need a really good cassette player (ha! Try finding one of those in 2012) and a good transfer cable and system.

[webslave]

I suppose they're not all trustworthy

Exactly. And I for one would completely sympathise if DW also had in mind that this would constitute theft of his intellectual material. It's just not tolerable, but may become unavoidable if this data follows the trajectory of most digital intellectual property.

An interim solution would be for DW to offer this material both on this cheaper player as well as on an additional higher quality (but more expensive) player. The patient can choose the player, and pay extra for the deluxe player if necessary. I'll mention it to him when he responds.

[webslave]

Yoink, DW has responded:

• He is happy to refund your money... they are in short supply & could use a return
• He has not had other complaints like this, by the sounds of it
• He is going to send me one of these gadgets to review, which I will post to the site
• He thinks it is a pretty good machine, in fact he called it "a great machine"
• He spent months trying to find one company he could work with to produce this device. He would welcome any suggestions or contacts to get a better device but still feels that is a quality machine and if someone doesn't like it, return it for a full refund.
• Someone already tried to rip the material and post it to the 'net, and ended up with a lawsuit. Not smart, in my opinion.

Hope this helps

[robertpagen]

The content of the tapes are wonderful and I still use them every winter. That being said I was, in practical terms, forced to digitize my remaining tapes for my personal use two years ago when I politely requested that they let me buy another set as the tapes were predictably degrading or busting after six years of use. I had thought that they would have been more than happy to do this for a man who attended one of their first sessions but they said no without explanation. Very curtly, too. I still recall the words they used:" I wish there was more I could do." I still respect his considerable contribution to the treatment of pelvic pain but that response was just noncaring. No one, including me, is perfect.

It is a very time consuming and equipment intensive process. There is nothing illegal about doing so if its use is restricted to my own personal use, period. I don't share it because I am an ethical person, period. Still the unwillingness to replace the tapes in the dead of winter two years ago did not sit well with me.

That having been said I can firmly state that unlocking the device you describe is no more difficult than unlocking an Iphone. Millions of people have done so. I can also state as an expert in applied telecommunications that this is not illegal either. You paid for your personal use.

Be well,

Robert

[webslave]

I agree with Robert. What you do with the material is your own business, if it is for your own use. As long as you do not try to disseminate it on the net, which would be illegal, there should be no problem.

[elitynski]

Robert - I would wholeheartedly agree that they should make tapes available for re-purchase for members that have attended the clinic.

Since the tapes are so very important to the protocol - refusing to replace them seems unreasonable as long as someone would pay for S&H, materials, and a nominal fee for any labor.

[we.the.hulk]

I went to the clinic in 2010, and couldn't believe that we got handed a giant cassette player. A cassette player! Good god. And huge book of cassettes..... And it didn't even have fast forward on it. Unreal. The tapes are fine. I think Wise over hypes them. There is certainly nothing magical about them. You can download free meditations all over the net. John Kabbat Zinn is probably the best in this dept. Meditation is meditation... You don't need to hear Wise tell you to relax this or that. And frankly his voice is annoying. You go to the clinic for the years of experience that Dr. Wise and Tim Sawyer have in this field. Which eclipses all others as far as I can tell, and they are ethical. And you get the wand. And you get to hang out with 12 other people that are experiencing what you are experiencing. In my mind, Wise's ego is getting the best of him. The world at large could give a rats ass about his relaxation tapes. He's made very good money off the clinic. So what if a few people get a free listen to some of his relaxations. In the long run, it could be great advertisement for the clinic. And the truth is, Wise's paradoxical relaxation is a complete and total rip off of Edmund Jacobson's theories. What's a little plagiarism. I'm sure Wise has compensated generously those that came before him. I'm not a Wise hater and I am a believer in the clinic, the wand, and Tim Sawyer. Just calling it the way I see it.

[kpbos]

Robert, I was at that clinic in NYC in 2003. I still have most of the tapes, and I think most are in decent condition, so if you would like to get copies perhaps I can help. I never got through all of them, I went very slowly and wanted to master each one before I moved on to the next. But over time I gave up on the protocol because of the time/money issue. I believe the protocol works, but my condition and my brain are just too damn stubborn. I haven't listened to the tapes in awhile (2 years maybe), but I'll always keep them just in case.

[N2Deep]

I don't understand why they don't just sell this PR set on the internet. I haven't attended the clinic but would think this could be taught without the doctor being in the room with you if it includes lectures on how to do paradoxical relaxation. And if one only had to drop $199 instead of $5000 to try PR, it would help a huge amount more people. If the lectures sold could make the process understood enough then the "people giving up" point is moot. Thats more a discipline thing anyways, it has nothing to do with going to the clinic.
This is one of the things that really put me off going to this clinic, is paying all that money to be handed a tape player/cassettes, and now this other device (which is obviously a bit better). Lots of respect for Wise-Anderson, but this is 100% about protecting copyrighted material, which is fine, but the way its being done is at the expense of paying customers, its only a matter of time before this gets out, just like anything else. So it might as well be sold in the best form possible that people can use on whatever device they want. Since the customer base for a paradoxical relaxation/lecture cd/mp3 set is small, if the price wasn't ridiculous, virtually all users would probably buy it from the source, many wouldn't know how to illegally download it anyway. If they stay doing it the way they currently are, when it does get out on the internet, 100% of people illegally download it, without lectures on how to do it right, and possibly give up.
If they fixed this problem and get the Wand available to all without attending the clinic, that will really make this whole thing infinitely better, and only then will it be a truly accessible possibility for people.

[elitynski]

N2Deep - I think what I'm hearing you say is "is this about helping people or is this about making money off of a potential treatment or cure?"

[webslave]

Whoa, timeout guys, that's about all the bashing of DW and the Wise-Anderson Protocol I'm going to allow on the topics of tapes and intellectual property.

DW has every right to protect his intellectual property from copyright infringement. It's also his right to distribute his lectures when and in whatever form he wishes. He is not a charity and should not be expected to give his work away just because you want it.

I'm also going to clamp down on complaints about the cost of the clinic. With a typical 10-minute cystoscopy costing $4,300 (in 2007), it's quite reasonable to pay $3,XXX for a full week of attention from a specialised psychologist and an outstanding physical therapist, and to come away with not only a unique wand (and training on how to use it), but also umpteen hours of lectures, and to then be equipped to put this whole nightmare behind you, with the right level of commitment.

Locking thread.