Dr Weiss's clinic or Dr Wise's Clinic?

[texas2006]

Having just come back from Dr. Wise's clinic (excellent, by the way), I am curious to see if anybody might have been to both. Is there a reason we don't read much about "Weiss Protocol Success Story"?

[MB]

Wise and Weiss used to work together a long time ago before Wise and Anderson started collaborating. I saw Weiss for a year but did not get better from his treatment. All he can offer you is (expensive) PT from his own staff and nerve blocks which were a disaster for me.
I would stick with the SP if I were you.

[robertpagen]

Back in the dark days before I had ever heard of AHIP or Dr Wise I called Dr Weiss in desperation.
He took the time to explain to me the concept of muscular pelvic pain a half year before the publishing of the first AHIP. I was a total stranger calling him from out of the blue and I was at my wits end, certainly on the verge of suicide. I will always be thankful to him that he took my call to give me info which NO urologist was sharing in 2002.
I was too broke economically to go to see him at that time, but his taking of my call was the start of my recovery.

His selfless sharing of his time was a shock to me when I considered how rude and useless most urologists had been.

Robert

[MB]

I was told that Rhonda Kotarinos (the famous PT in Chicago) diagnosed Wise with pelvic floor dysfunction in front of Weiss (Wise & Weiss were in the same practice) when they had no idea muscle dysfunction was the cause of Dr.Wise's condition. It is how they got into the field. They parted ways later; Weiss latching on the pudendal nerve entrapment theory and Wise perfecting his ideas of PT, stretching, and relaxation.

[webslave]

MB, if that story is true then it should be part of the A Headache in the Pelvis book, in my opinion. I can't remember seeing it there. Where did you hear that version of events?

[MB]

From my PT who worked at the time with Weiss and Wise and subsequently Anderson. Also Tim S. confirmed part of the story I don't remember which. It has been a couple of years.

AHIP alludes to a compassionate urologist that was treating Dr.Wise. I am told that it is Dr. Weiss.

The PT also told me recently that Anderson is retiring soon but that nobody is really interested at Stanford to carry on the chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome research.

[webslave]

I received this from a trusted correspondent:

I've heard that Weiss and Wise were in the same practice (if you call Dr. Weiss's office you still get Dr. Wise's voice on the v/m). Weiss as the urologist, Wise as a psychologist.

Apparently Weiss was very upset with Wise wanting to write a book and thought that David Wise had taken his ideas. They are not on speaking terms, which is why the AHIP story is a little vague around those events. I was also told that Wise was really hurt by Weiss's attitude and prefers not to discuss it.

Then Wise started working with urologist Dr Anderson at Stanford.

BTW, I hear that Weiss is actively discouraging people from seeking PNE decompression surgery. He changed his mind after seeing his patients come back in terrible shape. He is apparently recommending Botox now.

[gifford]

My PT wanted to get more training on chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome even though she only has me and one other patient with CPPS. She called Dr. Wise first but found that there was no SP training available for PTs now. Perhaps in the future. So she called Dr. Weiss and was told she could come out for a week of training. So she went out about a month ago and was trained by Dr. Weiss' PTs.. She said she learned a lot.

She also has read A HEADACHE IN THE PELVIS. She said that the SP and Dr. Weiss' program are quite different. She said that Dr. Weiss puts more emphasis on PT and massage and less on stretching exercises and "paradoxical relaxation". She said that PTs with ANY kind of chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome training are in high demand and has already gotten offers from other places. Fortunately for me , her family is here and she does not want to move.

She has been much more helpful to me ever since. (Although I am still doing much of the SP stuff from A HEADACHE IN THE PELVIS). She is teaching my wife and me as much as she can before my insurance stops paying for her.

gifford

[gifford]

I spoke too soon.
My PT told me today she just accepted another job out of the area.
She said that she was asked to name her price. She said she only wanted to work 2 days a week but wanted the same full time salary she was getting where she is now including full medical benefits, vacation, sick leave, etc. She did not think they would accept it. They did ! She starts September 1. She was the best trained PT within at least 100 miles. I was seeing her 2 x /week. Good for her but bad for me.

I figured this was going to happen after she got back from training with Dr. Weiss' PTs and told me PT's with any chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome knowledge were in high demand. She also tolld me that just after she left the training, Dr. Weiss' 2 PT's quit and set up shop on their own.

[CppsDad]

Gifford, have faith. Your wife will be able to help you, no doubt. Just be sure to communicate with her exactly what you need. Long term, this is the way to go. Your wife may not do it perfectly for a while, but she will be able to take more time, and won't be rushing. It will get better, and your wife will eventually become competent. My wife did. I don't think it's rocket science.

Mike

[gifford]

I have read AHIITP 3x and tried to do most of what is recommended in the book - relaxation, PT, exercises etc. for about a year now.. I have also seen a PT for 10 months from whom my wife has learned internal PT work as well as external skin rolling I have been helped some (penal base pain) but not others -testicle pain and urgency. I have one or the other of these 24/7. Not much has changed in the lase 6 months. My PT says that she has normalized nearly all of the soft tissue and is not sure what more she can do. She said that perhaps there may be contributing nerve pain. I am trying to decide whether I should pay the $3950 + travel, hotel, etc to go out to Dr. Wise's clinic or not. Not sure what extra can be learn or done by going or is it just a matter of continuing on with the info in the book. Dr. Wise suggests coming to his clinic , of course. But I would like to hear from some folks who have attended the clinic AFTER reading the A HEADACHE IN THE PELVIS and get their input.
Thanks much.
gifford.

[alprost]

I have been helped some (penal base pain) but not others -testicle pain and urgency. I have one or the other of these 24/7.

TP's in your obliques and lower abs are often the source of these problems. I don't want to labour the point in light of my recent posts on this board, but as soon as PT's start suggesting nerve damage when there is no injury/reason for nerve damage, I start thinking they are missing TP's and looking for an alternative explanation for a patients symptoms.

Not sure what extra can be learn or done by going or is it just a matter of continuing on with the info in the book.

It is not only what is being done, but how well it is being done.

In light of my own experience, I would definitely advise going to the clinic. It cost me a lot of money, and I had to save and sacrifice a lot to go, but at least with the PT's there you are guaranteed that if there are TP's which are causing your symptoms, they will find them. For me, it was worth every penny (or cent ).

[LightningTree]

Its a personal decision Gifford. I will tell you that I chose to work on it by myself. But I read and think a lot about it and am constantly experimenting with ways to improve my situation. If you are similar, you might want to see if you can't make progress with just you and your wife for a while. This is completely arbitrary advice, of course, it really comes down to what you think is best for you.

[gifford]

Re: It's a personal decision

But if that decision iss other than going to Dr. Wise's SP in SF, then it likely does not include Paradoxical Relaxation (PR). I found that section in A HEADACHE IN THE PELVIS confusing and the book says that it can not be learned except by a trained professional from his clinic anyway. So is PR really not that helpful to most folks or is it replace with some other form of relaxation? I do what I consider relaxation along with other things so not sure what has helped.
gifford

[robertpagen]

Weiss charges patients 150 dollars per half hour to do phone appts with him. Problem is when I did one with him he mostly answered that he couldn't make an observation without having examined me himself. It seemed rather unproductive and frankly, taking advantage of the sick. I have read some of his observations and I believe he knows his stuff. Still his office double charged me and his criticisms of DR Wise were inappropriate too.

The phone appt was like a pitch to come out and see him.

On the positive side his knowledge of the nerve innervation and its affects on sleep and emotion were appreciated.

Buyer beware.