NEED A LITTLE HELP WITH RELAXATION

[ZR]

My physical therapist that I have been seeing for about four months now has been stressing with me to do relaxation tech but when I ask here to give me some sugestions she say you need to do what is best for you and can not really give any sugestions. Ihave been sitting in a dark room listening to relaxation music but not getting any real benefit. I am kind of lost when it comes to this and do not really know how to do the right thing with the relaxation part of this problem.

I know AHIP book talks about the paradoxical relaxation but since you can not order dr wise tapes this does not really help I have also heard on this tapes he tells you how to relax?

I do not think music with ocean sounds or birds cherping is what I need I'm I right in thinking this?

Tapes that jd and scotsman have talked about for instance awakened mind system and experence yoga nidra guided deep relaxation are they audio cds that help tell you how to get relaxed?

And are audio cds tell you someting other then just playing nice sounding music(i know propably a bad question lol) ?

And the relaxation and stress reduction workbook the best on breathing tech and is it a easy read?

Any help from scotsman or any one else that might know of the best tech or that can help with the questions I have asked will be great full.

I have just been tring the physical therapy and not the relaxation part which my therapist has been telling me I need I just in my head did not think I need to relax but I have come to the conclusion that I might need to do something more because my problems still increase with stress and when I have a flare up.

THANK YOU AND GOD BLESS

[scotsman]

I am kind of lost when it comes to this and do not really know how to do the right thing with the relaxation part of this problem.

There's no great secret in learning how to relax - best way is to just start doing something - even if it's just breathing properly.

I know AHIP book talks about the paradoxical relaxation but since you can not order dr wise tapes this does not really help I have also heard on this tapes he tells you how to relax?

He doesn't tell you how to relax as such - just helps to get your mind into a state where your body will start to relax by itself.

I do not think music with ocean sounds or birds cherping is what I need I'm I right in thinking this?

These sorts of CD's could well work well for you - I tend to use these types a lot. Anything that helps you relax is worth doing.

Tapes that jd and scotsman have talked about for instance awakened mind system and experence yoga nidra guided deep relaxation are they audio cds that help tell you how to get relaxed?

The Yoga Nidra CD has spoken instructions for you to follow.

And the relaxation and stress reduction workbook the best on breathing tech and is it a easy read?

Yes, it's an excellent book and must be the first thing you buy, read and start with following the basic breathing exercises.

Don't expect to try and buy anything that you read or listen too that will suddenly relax you. You have to stick with relaxation work - the first few times you listen to any tape/cd you may probably feel it's not working, or strange/silly - but you have to stick with it, it does start working but don't expect it to be a quick fix. Learning how to breath properly is the first and most important step and the Relaxation and Stress workbook tells you how to do that.

So, my recommendation is to buy two things - first is the Relaxation and Stress Workbook and the second is the Yoga Nidra CD (though be aware that you may have to go through a few CD's until you find the one that works best for you).

Richard.

[LightningTree]

I have just been tring the physical therapy and not the relaxation part which my therapist has been telling me I need I just in my head did not think I need to relax but I have come to the conclusion that I might need to do something more because my problems still increase with stress and when I have a flare up.

THANK YOU AND GOD BLESS

Hey ZR,

YOu have GOT to relax. It is very difficult for pelvic myoneuropathy to heal when your body's defensive posture is contributing to the irritation.

Trust me, I am now 99% percent symptom free. The only time I get symptoms now is when I am in a stressful social situation. So I KNOW that stress contributes to my problem. I wouldn't be surprised at all if it contributed to yours.

Reducing that stress is critical to giving your body more room for healing. That sounds all 'holistic hokey pokey' but it is more true than I could have ever imagined in my younger more Westernized days.

[LightningTree]

Don't expect to try and buy anything that you read or listen too that will suddenly relax you. You have to stick with relaxation work - the first few times you listen to any tape/cd you may probably feel it's not working, or strange/silly - but you have to stick with it, it does start working but don't expect it to be a quick fix. Learning how to breath properly is the first and most important step and the Relaxation and Stress workbook tells you how to do that.

I'll second that statement.

I've got two simple suggestions for you that my relaxation teacher tough us beginners:

Part 1: The Counting Game

Don't expect to succeed at this game right away. It is a long term challenge.

Step 1: Learn to listen to, but not participate in the thought-flow that is constantly going on in your head. This flow consists of ideas, fears, images, day dreams, presumptions, cognitive statements, etc, flowing through your mind. Learn to identify this flow and try to detach yourself from it.

Step 2: See if you can keep yourself from actively participating in that cognitive flow of mental stuff. THink of the flow of thoughts as something like an untrained puppy. Love it and observe it.

Step 3: If you can observe the flow of thoughts in your head for long enough, you can stop participating in it. Your flow of thoughts will start to slow down and concentrate.

Step 4: When you feel the flow of thoughts decreasing, you may reach a point where the thoughts in your head are smaller and more basic, but are still there. This can take a few weeks of practice to get to this step.

Step 5: When you feel like you have reached Step 4 while meditating, start focusing your meditation on counting out seconds. See if you can get the counting out of seconds to be the only willful thought you have in your mental space, while the rest of it is busy observing your breathing, heartbeat etc.

Step 6: See how high you can count before thoughts start entering your head.

I can usually get to 3 or 4, these days, before thoughts come into my head. I don't practice a lot, though.

PART 2: Eating Consciously For Maximum Pleasure

Whenever you eat a meal or a snack, don't let the food go down without you beeing fully, consciously aware of it. Eating is a pleasurable experience, and you can destress from it by enjoying it to the maximum. Make sure to stay conscious and focused on the pleasures of eating while you are doing this. This helps me reduce stress.

(Some people think this will get you to eat less, but personally, I think it just reduces my stress. I still eat too much.)

[timberdoodle]

As I read AHIP, the concept of paradoxical relaxation is not at all the same thing as simply relaxing with a meditation tape. I have really been looking into this angle as of late, and I just spoke with Dr. Wise within the past couple of days about it. His comment to me was that if he didn't continue the paradoxical relaxation daily, he felt he would become symptomatic again.

I have done physical therapy and my progress back towards normal has flattened out lately. I really believe that the paradoxical relaxation training is what is missing, and I am considering going to Stanford just to learn it.

If we really believe in the Stanford/Wise-Anderson Protocol, we need to emphasize the differrence between paradoxical relaxation and simply meditating or relaxing more than we do!

For example, the statement: "you have got to relax" runs exactly counter to Dr. Wise's counsel in AHIP where he teaches you to let go of effort. If you work at relaxing, or feel you must relax, you are heading in the wrong direction.

I hesitate to be critical of other posters on this particular subject, because they have helped me tremendously and I have a great deal of respect for their insights. But I feel like we're all off in a different direction when it comes to the notion of paradoxical relaxation.

[scotsman]

If we really believe in the Stanford/Wise-Anderson Protocol, we need to emphasize the differrence between paradoxical relaxation and simply meditating or relaxing more than we do!

For example, the statement: "you have got to relax" runs exactly counter to Dr. Wise's counsel in AHIP where he teaches you to let go of effort. If you work at relaxing, or feel you must relax, you are heading in the wrong direction.

Yes and no. Whilst paradoxical relaxation might well be the best approach for many sufferers, I'd imagine that most readers on this forum don't have access to the funds required to travel to Standford to learn how to do paradoxical relaxation (myself included - though I have heard some of the tapes). For these sufferers 'normal' relaxation techniques are better than no relaxation techniques and personally I can't say whether or not paradoxical relaxation is better than other relaxation forms.

The path to recovery seems to be different for most of us. Some only need physiotherepy to become symptom free, some need that and relaxation and others may need a specific form of relaxation.

If paradoxial relaxation was easily available for anyone then I'd be more comfortable focusing on that - but it isn't - you can only get it if you pay to go to Dr Wise.

I've personally had great benefit and made good progress from using 'standard' relaxation techniques.

I have done physical therapy and my progress back towards normal has flattened out lately. I really believe that the paradoxical relaxation training is what is missing, and I am considering going to Stanford just to learn it.

Have you tried any other forms of relaxation? How do you know it's specifically paradoxical relaxation that's the missing link for you? Saying that, if you're in a position to go to Standford then I'd certainly recommend it.

For example, the statement: "you have got to relax" runs exactly counter to Dr. Wise's counsel in AHIP where he teaches you to let go of effort. If you work at relaxing, or feel you must relax, you are heading in the wrong direction.

Got to say that I don't know how relaxation can work any other way other than to let go of effort - I've yet to try one that doesn't do exactly that (and I've tried a lot). When I say you have to 'work' at relaxation, that's probably the wrong phrase to use, as along with 'you have got to relax' it implies pressure. What I really mean is that regardless of what relaxation technique is used you have to stick with it - try it every day for a month as results may not come very quickly (both for feeling more refreshed after a session and also symptom reduction). I know myself that I was much better at letting go of effort and relaxing after a few weeks and now I find my pain can reduce by around 50% after a session (comes back though ).

Richard.

[timberdoodle]

Richard,

I appreciate your comments and the chance to interact on this issue. The primary point I am trying to make is that strictly speaking, Dr. Wise envisions something different when he talks about paradoxical relaxation than simply meditating via the aid of the many relaxation tapes on the market.

I do believe that the "general" relaxation strategies that many of us do are helpful to our condition. I am simply trying to point out that if I understand Dr. Wise correctly, he would call these efforts "half-measures."

Having said that, I have attempted the use of tapes given to me by my therapist and have recently used the Awakened Mind tapes suggested by others on this forum recently. I started a thread a while back to see what others are doing.

As I said in my previous post, despite these efforts, I feel like my progress has plateaued recently. So I re-read AHIP and came to see that Dr. Wise means something different when he describes paradoxical relaxation than what I had been doing with the tapes. Which has led me to think pretty hard recently about going to Stanford, even though affording it will be difficult!

I feel like it's fair, on a forum devoted to discussing the Stanford/Wise-Anderson Protocol, to try to be clear on what the pioneers of the protocol mean when they talk about relaxation. That is not to say that general relaxation is no good. I am just trying to define terms well for the benefit of us all...

My Best, Patrick

[scotsman]

Patrick

I'll see if I can get Dr Wise to give us a definition on the differences of his approach and also why he believes it's more productive that other relaxation techniques. It will be good to have that definition on the forum.

Pity it's so proprietary just now but like all things over time it should become more widely available, i.e. without the need to visit Dr Wise or to pay for telephone or email consultation (as he will provide the tapes without a visit, as long as you take email or phone consultations alongside them).

Richard.

[boudreaux]

I will jump in here because I have been doing paradoxical relaxation for over a year now and some days up to two hours of meditation/paradoxical relaxation and have been studying different names for and facets of meditation for over a year. For the record, I have been to Dr. Wise's clinic and learned paradoxical relaxation from him.

You can call it whatever you like: paradoxical relaxation, meditation, general relaxing. the name is not important. the relaxation "response" is what is important. there has been another post on this board that does a good job describing the symptoms of the relaxation response:
1. complete stillness -literally not moving a muscle
2. heavy, warm, tingling sensation to the point where the outline or contours of the body become almost liquid, i.e., your brain is not aware of the shape of your hand...it just feels like a warm shapeless part of you.
3. able to "come back" from your wandering thoughts more easily than when fully conscious.
4. for me, strange swallowing issues

and then, just being there. "resting in oneself" some of the indian gurus have called it. and while you're in the relaxation response (the heavy warm sensation is the telltale sign) having an attitude of kindness and acceptance toward all things, especially yourself, including any pelvic pain or discomfort you may feel. having the attitude of "I accept my tension and pain and am willing to be present and rest with this tension and pain as long as it needs to be there. I welcome all sensations."

and of course the ultimate point is: while in this state, this warm, heavy relaxation response state, the only thing the body has to do is heal itself. heal the shortenend tissues that are causing the pelvic pain. it doesn't have to perform tasks or defend itself or be stressed or worry about how it looks or make love or play basketball or drink or eat or anything. it only does in that state what it naturally wants to do: heal itself. and the warmth is a real thing - the warmth comes from the increase in blood flow that happens when all the myofascial tissue is still and relaxed. and blood carries all the good stuff that heals. as long as you are warm enough when you start the relaxation, in my experience, it is virtually impossible to get cold while in the relaxation response. I identify the warmth with healing.

so my point is if you can find a method to get to the relaxation response, it doesn't matter what you call it, and Dr. Wise doesn't care what you call it. but it simply must be done every day, and the more time you can devote to it the better. over time, and I would suggest that everyone give themselves a full year to year and half, your body and mind will have calmed dramatically, and the healed state will become the normal state to your central nervous system rather than the painful, stressed state.

and by the way, this is not just for pelvic pain. it improves your entire quality of life and amazingly benefits your relationships. learning to accept yourself you start to accept others, faults and all. and don't look at it as a "crutch" you have to do every day. it won't work. only when you start to love it will you start to heal. I feel blessed that pelvic pain led me to relaxation/meditation.

[scotsman]

Thanks boudreaux - superb post

Here's that other post you mentioned.

Richard.

[timberdoodle]

Great post Bordeaux. Thanks! How much pelvic healing would you say you have experienced reaching the relaxed state? Are you still symptomatic?

Also, for general info for everyone, Dr. Wise no longer does phone or email consultation to teach paradoxical relaxation. When I spoke to him early this past week, I explained to him that I was doing physical therapy with a therapist who had been to his clinic, and that I was seeing a urologist who is on the same page with him, but I felt that I was only lacking the paradoxical relaxation that he describes in the book. I asked if he would consult with me on just that aspect of the protocol, and he told me that he no longer feels comfortable doing that and the only option he now offers is to come to the clinic in CA.

Best to all....

[boudreaux]

on a scale of 1 to 10, in spring of 2004 my pain and fear was off the charts. as bad as you can possibly imagine. In one year and three months, I am down to a .3, if I had to put a number on it. 90 percent of the time I have no symptoms at all. When I do have symptoms, it's really not pain as just a little discomfort, some tightness. But when it arises it does not cause me fear or sadness. I welcome it and honor it as a sign to go do a relaxation session, or go to yoga, or just take a bath and stretch. it always immediately goes away. and I believe over the next year it will completely go away and, in fact, I will have better myofascial health in my whole body than I did before my symptoms even began. I believe in my body's power to get better, as long as I am vigilant about caring for my mind. but even if it didn't, and I had mild tinges of tightness or discomfort for the rest of my life, it would not bother me. I would be thankful that I had a bodily reminder of when I was getting too stressed, too caught up in the worldly things that have nothing to do with my inherent value as a person.

My occasional mild symptom does not interfere with any aspect of my life, because I have calmed my mind to the point that I have no emotional reaction to the symptom. It is simply there, like a tree is there. How could it not be if it is. This type of thinking is key to full recovery. As another poster recommended the other day, I highly recommend the book Loving What Is, by Byron Katie, and committing oneself to the cognitive therapy therein. It is powerful and, in my opinion, true. It is almost a spiritual text in my own humble opinion. Other books I would recommend for pelvic pain sufferers are Love is Letting Go of Fear by Jambolski and The Power of Now by Echhart Tohle. The mind, not the pelvis, is the key to myofascial healing. Therapy and stretching simply facilitate the ability for the muscles to relax, but the mind is the engine of the relaxation.

For the record, it takes a long time to learn how to relax. A real long time. It took me 8-12 months of daily meditation/relaxation before I really had a grasp on what I was doing and my body knew where it was going when I laid down every day. Now it seems as natural as eating ice cream. I lay down and my body and mind seem to both say "Okay, here we go, a relaxation session," and boom, the heavy warm feeling starts to descend after only about five to ten minutes. Then I stay in that state, the relaxation response state, for as long as my schedule allows. And now I know that I was doing a lot of good those first 8 months, I just wasn't really sure about it because it takes so long.

Other things I recommend:
1. Yoga
2. As much deep tissue/trigger point therapy as you can afford. And I mean in addition to a clinical PT you go to for internal work. Really good deep tissue massage therapists are everywhere, and deep work on the legs, abdomen, and buttocks can cut down an amazing amount of pain. It is expensive, though.
3. Study and understand Davies' book on trigger points at http://www.triggerpointbook.com. I mean really study and work with yourself with tennis balls and a Theracane. It takes time, too, but soon you will really start to get a mental grasp for the feel and workings of myofascial connective tissue and the denser muscles themselves. besides the bones, our bodies are like clay, very manipulable.
4. Forgive yourself.

I wish everyone the best. Believe you can heal, because it is true.