Updates from Serrapeptase and Wobenzym users?

scotsman · Post by **scotsman** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 1:44 pm

Any updates on findings so far from those who have bought Serrapeptase and/or Wobenzym?

I've been on Serrapeptase for 8 days now and haven't yet noticed any real difference. 3 days into the treatment I did feel that my triggerpoints didn't seem as angry as before - but I did have a heavy triggerpoint treating session just before that and my normal level of pain/triggerpoints have returned as the week progressed. So not sure if the temporary reduction was due to the Serrapeptase.

Still hopeful something might come from taking them.

Richard.

timberdoodle · Post by **timberdoodle** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:14 pm

I've been trying both enzymes for a little over a week with no real change in symptoms. I was joking with my wife the other night because I forgot to take them for about a 12 hour period, and actually felt better! In short, I haven't noticed any change yet but I will keep at it along with stretching, PT, and relaxation work.

scotsman · Post by **scotsman** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:24 pm

timberdoodle wrote:....I was joking with my wife the other night because I forgot to take them for about a 12 hour period, and actually felt better! ....

classic!

I've got enough to last me almost a month so plan to give it a long enough try.

Richard.

londoner · Post by **londoner** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:02 pm

I think it does take a little time. Also taking Quercetin but feel much better.

timberdoodle · Post by **timberdoodle** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 2:46 am

Yes, I recall Eric saying it took a good 3-4 weeks before he noticed a difference on the enzymes.

givemelife · Post by **givemelife** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:35 pm

First Post here but have been lurking for a couple of weeks..

I tried the enzyme therapy at the high levels (10 wob's and 3 ser three times a day) and I had a huge flair up after a couple of days so bad that I couldn't think. (burning and redness at the tip of the penis and general bad feeling). The symptoms were not what I normally have been dealing with lately although I have had just about all the symptoms described on this forum at one time over the last four years, but this was worse so I quit taking them.
I did read AHIP at that time and started doing the excersises and trying to relax daily and things are better, so I am afraid to try enzymes again. I have them so if I decide to try them they are in my cabinet with all the other things I have tried..

Hope this works well for all of you in gettingaome relief from the dreadful syndrome..

With health

G

treynor33 · Post by **treynor33** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:56 pm

Was there anything you were taking giving you relief that you stopped around the same time? Seems very weird that they made things worse. I am starting on them on Monday and will see if the same thing happens.

I intended to stop bee pollen, fax oil, etc (not sure if they are helping) before I start the enzymes.

ericpeterman · Post by **ericpeterman** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:06 pm

givemelife:

I'll be interested in your answer to treynor33's question.

The second time I went on Uroxatral for the first couple of days it felt like someone was opening my urinary tract with a screwdriver, then that terrible sensation faded and the med relaxed and sort of numbed the muscles so that I had much less urinary tract pain than before taking them.

This is from the MUCOS website:

The symptoms of chronic illness may occasionally increase in severity at the beginning of Wobenzym and Phlogenzym therapy (most often during second week of treatment). Based on current experience this is considered in most cases a positive reaction of the organism on the treatment. In this case the medication should not be discontinued, although a temporary reduction in dose might be advisable.

I've observed similar statements made by the mfgs of other systemic enzymes and by doctors and naturopaths involved with enzyme therapy. Apparently systemic enzymes take the body through an orderly progression in the inflammation process back to desired quescense. In some situations higher doses cause this to happen quicker and with greater intensity than one would enjoy. So it would make sense to me for me to try 3x3 instead of 3x10 and work up slowly in dosage a week or so at a time until I see a positive response [or until I prove that the therapy is ineffective for my case], then slowly work back down to a maintenance dosage. I am currently back down to 3x3 (either Wobenzym or Utra Infla-Zyme Forte), and 2 Serrapeptase with that.

I got my first major response several weeks into the therapy and continued to improve over the past 3 months.

FYI, for those of you who might be interested, you can click on my user profile and follow the website link listed there. I trust you'll find it comforting. Also you may want to read the end of the Success Story as it has been kindly updated.

Eric Peterman

Post by **webslave** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:22 pm

I think Eric is a jolly good sport to have endured our collective suspicion and persevered with trying to help us. Good man, Eric!

And that web page is truly something unusual! I wish we could all be so open! In my case, running a site like this precludes an open identity (people who run health-related sites are routinely sued for trivial reasons).

Anyway, nice effort there, Eric!

Ginty · Post by **Ginty** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:39 pm

Yeah nice page Eric, good to put a face to the name!

Definitely some food for thought as well since I remain very private about this ailment around friends, colleagues and most of my family. I'm sure it would do me the world of good to stop holding it all in.

Anyway I have been on the enzymes for a few weeks now, and it's definitely been a positive experience so far.

I first got hold of the Serrapeptase which I started taking at 120000 units 3 times a day, and for the next two weeks I didn't really have any change in symptoms at all.
However I then got a hold of the Wobenzym which I started at the 3 x10 a day dose and within a week I things started to get a bit better.

At the time of writing I have been on the combination of enzymes for nearly two weeks and the key things I have noticed are:
Pain in my sides and flanks of my back has almost gone.
My urine which has been cloudy for years seems to be getting less so, also smells a lot better.
Burning in my legs has probably lessened although is still there.
Pain in my armpits has disappeared.
I seem to have more energy, previously I would literally collapse into bed at night and feel constantly tired all day, for the last 10 days or so I've felt back to normal.

Ideally I wanted to wait a couple of months before posting to give it the full shot, but as it came up I wanted to let you know its very much so far so good for me. May it continue!

All the best,
Stephen,

ericpeterman · Post by **ericpeterman** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:05 pm

Webslave: Thanks for your kind words. After the sheer torture and mental anguish of the unknown with CPPS, persevering in overcoming suspicion here was a cakewalk! (I bet all of us can identify with the perspective that chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome brings, especially those of you who have endured for years, eh?)

Ginty: First, regarding weighing the benefits of being open (in a sensitive and appropriate way) with others about our condition: It was one of the best moves I ever made. About 2 weeks into my initial pain and bleeding and urinary urgency (and far before I had a diagnosis or knew that it was CPPS, in other words, in the truly scary time) I let our church congregation in on what was going on. Those folks just wrapped their arms around my wife and I. They offered to help in various ways, prayed with us, took the children so I could rest, accomodated my special needs and most importantly, they watched me suffer through. They watched as I preached and collapsed and urged me to get back up and press on through the pain. One day in October the congregation held a party for us and gave us a basket full of cards. Each one contained an encouraging message and each one contained funds. I won't tell you how much they gave, but that those 70 people gave almost a months salary - far more than they could afford. The "ringleader" stood and took my hand and said, "We love you. Use this to find out what is wrong, and to find the solution." I told my wife later that regardless of what happened I could not complain, for on that day I had seen and touched the face of God Himself. Those funds allowed me to see the doctors, do the research, and obtain the first batch of enzymes. So you never know how people are going to react and they just might suprise you! Don't let the mentality of chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome control your perception of other people.

Secondly, thanks for the report on your progress. Interestingly, your symptoms and the rate at which you are responding to the enzymes parallels my experience, although I didn't have the armpit pain, I had terrible sensitivity/soreness all over the soft tissue of the abdomen and flank. That just faded away. I too experienced a great lift in my energy back to healthy levels. One of the later symptoms to leave was the burning thighs and like you, mine diminished a bit at first.

Also, you point out something that I didn't mention before because it didn't seem important to me, but in seeing your experience and that of Scottsman I may have been wrong to overlook it: I started taking the Serrapeptase by itself a little more than a week before I started the Wobenzym and I received only a minor change in symptoms (a little pain control). The difference came after I added the Wob. Londoner reports positive benefits from Serrapeptase + Quercetin.

All: Here is my current update. In my posts from a month ago I reported that I was still experiencing a little abdominal pain especially while standing ("ghost pain" I called it), and I also had trigger points in the rectus ab and soreness to the right of the perineum in certain positions. As well there was pain if the insertion of the rectus ab into the pubic bone was pressed. Also, I sometimes had slow urination on rising if my bladder was full. As well there was tightness and sensitivity around the rectum. I put my status as 95% symptom free.

At this point the remaining ab pain is utterly gone, I have to squeeze really hard on the rectus ab to get a trigger point zing down into the urinary tract, and the pain to the right of the perineum, while still there in certain mechanical positions or after sitting for several hours, is lessened. The insertion into the pubic bone no longer hurts when pressed. If I sit for long periods the rectum area is a little sensitive and I have to take care to avoid hemorrhoids from sitting for long hours. My urination is always just fine (no slowness on rising when the bladder is full). In short, although I avoid caffein, wine or beer, and I emphasize fresh fruits and veggies in my diet and I take an herbal complex called Leg Vein to avoid hemorrhoid flareups, the symptoms that existed are no longer a factor in my daily life nor do they affect my planning or thinking,

I also want to let you all know that since early November, when I started the Wob + Serrapeptase, I have deliberately avoided stretching or any relaxation therapy, except for squatting for a few seconds if I have been sitting for more than an hour to work out that pain to the right of the perineum. I have deliberately continued to sit for long hours at my study to keep my muscles in the injuring position (very painful during much of November). My only PT was about 60 seconds done by Dr. Anderson during my exam on Dec 23rd, but by then I had been on the enzymes for several weeks and was already much better. My exercise is to walk 3 miles a few times a week and to do yard/farmwork. I avoided the stretching and maintained the injurious sitting posture in order to be a "guinea pig" to demonstrate to myself that the systemic enzymes can play a big part in accellerating healing and recovery from this nastiness. I most emphatically do not recommend this course of non-action to others! I believe that by following the Stanford/Wise-Anderson Protocol AND taking the enzymes I could have healed up much faster than by following either course separately.

scotsman · Post by **scotsman** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:40 pm

Eric - have you tried just taking Wobenzym by itself? (I'm wonder if the Serrapeptase is needed).

Richard.

chewymix · Post by **chewymix** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:57 pm

I have been taking Serrapeptase for about a month now at 300,000 units a day 3x40,000 tabs 3 times a day. So far I have not really noted any improvement and i've started to run out, or will do soon, however I'm going to buy some more. I've been waiting on getting some Wobenzym delivered but the supplier in the States has been rubbish and so I have sourced some from somewhere else so hopefully before long I'll be taking them both together which is what I think is needed at least at first.

I'll report more when I have some definitive results positive or not.

thanks

ericpeterman · Post by **ericpeterman** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:08 pm

Richard,

No, I have not tried the Wob by itself. My research showed that there is overlap as well as unique attributes to each systemic enzyme so when I started I did both, with (in my mind) Wob being the primary and the Serrapeptase the adjuvant.

Wobenzym and Ultra Infla-Zym Forte use Chymotripsin as the activating enzyme for the package. One notices that the systemic enzymes Vitalzym and now its direct competitor Zymitol (both designed by the same person, Patrick Buehl) use Serrapeptase rather than Chymotripsin as the activating enzyme. It could be (I don't know) that the sum total of the Wob and Serrapeptase combo action is greater than the sum of its parts.

I would be interested in the experience of others who are doing the Wob by itself. I see there is one report on the site from Roberth who is taking 2 x 4tabs Wob by itself (no Serr) for a month and is feeling somewhat better. Myself and another guy have interacted with the medical director of MUCOS, Dr. Harmut Becker and he felt that the Serrapeptase was redundant. He also said that the clinical chronic abacterial prostatitis studies in Europe show that 3x3tabs Wob is effective, and that it takes a "long time" (he didn't specify what "long time" means, but the studies I've seen both with chronic abacterial prostatitis and other ailments reflect the collective experience here so far... a couple weeks to start noticing significant changes.)

scotsman · Post by **scotsman** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:13 am

Thanks Eric

I'm taking Ser's - for three weeks now - with no noticeable benefits but have Wobs arriving next week (plus a new supply of Ser's). I'll try both together for a month to see what response I get.

I'm sure that there will be others who are/have gone with Wobs only and hopefully they'll post their findings.

Richard.